Kevin, you have now been sent the invite.

Bring Kevin in here in a second.

And we can let the team know to get this out on Twitter. You guys that are coming in right now, if you guys don't mind sharing this, I'm sorry about that first.

Little trial run we had there. Maybe this is what crypto is going through.

Huh.

OK, so you said you. I see it. I'm gonna log on right now and see what happens. I mean, I think ultimately this cleans up the whole space. That's the good news.

Yeah.

OK, so you want that on bike with the coast here. OK, I'm looking for you. I'm looking for you. I'm looking for the handsome Kevin O'Leary. There he is.

Invite Co hosts and Co host invite.

Except cohost and bingo bingo magic.

OK, we're in good shape here.

OK, good. Now. Hey, hey, Nelson, is the audio good now?

Yeah, it's perfect. Now it works.

Kevin, just talk a second. Let me see if we got good.

1234 test 123.

That sounds great.

Alright.

So it it works better when it's not on and you know you're sitting on it, bro.

Yeah, I said what I said. You know, sometimes technology, you just gotta.

Get off your butt and it'll work.

Science technology just go get off your bike people work yeah so Kevin the last hey thank you so much for being here I really really appreciate it you guys in the audience do your job and share the stream and and and Kevin wants to talk about FTX and Sam and Crypto and also I want to get to sales and marketing and business and the recession and real estate and what your what your opinions all that are but obviously we got to handle the the biggest thing first when you list interview you're going

Straight to Washington, DC to testify tomorrow at the US Senate Banking Committee. Specifically this topic, the collapse of FTX.

Great to Washington, DC to testify tomorrow at the US Senate Banking Committee. Specifically this topic, the collapse of the FTX.

And so tell me what happened, man. Like to bring me up to steam on what? What exactly? The last time I saw you was at Nobu in Malibu.

Right.

And everything was great. The world was fine. And now I see you today and you know you're in the news every day. I saw the grilling that you took from those guys at CNBC. I thought they were your friends.

Yeah, you know, there is a separation between the news and friendship. You gotta disclose everything, which I did and I can continue to do. I've already disclosed I'm a paid spokesperson for FTX. I already disclosed that I was an owner, at least an equity shareholder. And FTX International and FTX US disclosed that I lost around $10 million in the wallets of FTX. They were swept clean two Saturdays ago. We don't know where the money is.

Yeah, you know, there is a separation between the news and friendships. You got to disclose everything, which I get and I will continue to do. I've already displayed on the page spokesperson for FTX. I already disclosed that I was an owner or at least an equity shareholder international and FTX US disclosed that I lost around $10 million in the wallets TX. They were swept clean two Saturdays ago. We don't know where the money is.

So all of that's behind me now. And I think that the key to understand about this situation is this is a new and nascent technology. There are, there are two behemoths out there. There's Binance and there's FX. They were frenemies, they were competing. And what but both of them realized over time was that the real money hadn't come into crypto because the institutions weren't willing to buy it, and that they weren't willing to buy because it wasn't regulated and they didn't have the compliance i

So all of that's behind me now and I think that's the key to understand about the situation is this is a new and nascent technology there. There are two behemoths out there. There's finance and there's FX. They were frenemies, they were competing. And what's what's also realized over time that this, the real money hasn't itself because the institutions were willing to buy and they're willing to buy regulated and they didn't have the infrastructure. So sandbagging trade set up.

If you ask me, campaign spent about a year going back and forth to Washington to try and convince lawmakers to that.

So Sam Bankman freed uh, set up FTX us. He attempted and spent about a year, you know, going back and forth to Washington to try and convince lawmakers to pass legislation. He was a fixture on the hill. Everybody knows that.

The texture on the yellow, but he knows that.

It's echoing really bad.

FTX U.S. equity with a smoking hot equity, everybody wanted a piece of it. The deal was really, really hot and that's her deal. I I never put any of my LP's into it because I was a paid spokesperson. So that would have made a conflict of interest occurs, which I didn't want to have happen. So. So all the money I've lost is in my work company and nobody else is also disclosed that. But you know, you got to remember something people say what about the?

FTX U.S. equity was a smoking hot equity. Everybody wanted a piece of it. The deal was really, really hot venture deal. I I never put any of my LP's into it because I was a paid spokesperson. So that would have made a conflict of interest occur, which I didn't want to have happen. So. So all the money I lost was in my own company and nobody elses also disclosed that. But you know, you got to remember something people say, what about the due diligence? Why didn't anybody do due diligence? Yes, th

Yes, there was the other time. But in venture investing, consider this, and this has been since the 50s, since the 1950s. You make 10 investments, 8 of them go to 0. Two of them make all your money. Even if you do diligence, you don't know with certainty you're going to be successful. You can't. And so when you talk about the utility, it doesn't mean you're not going to fail. It means 80% of the time you're going to fail, but you still go on because when you get a Unicorn, everybody saw an.

Done. But in venture investing, consider this, and this has been since the 50s. Since the 1950s. You make 10 investments, 8 of them go to 0. Two of them make all your money. Even if you do due diligence, you don't know with certainty you're going to be successful. You can't. And so when you talk about the due diligence, it doesn't mean you're not going to fail. It means 80% of the time you're going to fail, but you still go on. Because when you get a Unicorn and everybody thought FT X could have

You still make the investment. If I was offered the FTX investment today in the US and international with what I knew then, I'd still do the investment now from what I know now, obviously.

Like for many Unicorn, you still make the investment. If I was offered the FTX investment today in the US international with what I knew then, I still do the investment now. From what I know now, obviously everybody has the entire dynamic, some of the largest meetings with financial services on Earth. We all look like idiots, of course, egg on our face etcetera, but I feel compelled as they're paid spokesperson to keep going.

I'm gonna find the throne.

Everybody has egg on their face. The entire 90 of us, some of the largest names that financial services on Earth. We all look like idiots, of course, egg on our face, et cetera. But I feel compelled as a paid spokesperson to keep going on this one. I'm going to, I'm going to fund the forensic due diligence I need and trying to figure out where the cash went. I've already applied to the credit committee. I want to work hard there, and I think I have a unique perspective.

If you show me where the money is, I'll go get it. That's what I've told everybody.

Show me where the money is. I'll go get it. Yeah. So Kevin, so let's just go back a second so I understand when you say your wallet was swept clean of 10 million.

So when you did the deal, they paid you I think 15 million, right?

Does that money get transferred to you at that time or is part of that equity and part of the cash, no, part of the deal was that we we paid the agents in cash and we paid taxes in cash, but the remainder was put in the wallets and basically you know 99% of it was put in the wallets that I. So I could become not only an FTF investor but also beyond the platform and one of my jobs to work with the developers to make it more compliant for for institutional diligence.

And and as time passed, the platform got better and better in terms of it.

No, part of the deal was that we we paid the agents in cash and we paid taxes in cash, but the remainder was put in the wallets and basically you know 99% of it was put in the wallets that I. So I could become not only an FTF investor investor but also beyond the platform. And one of my jobs was to to work with the developers to make it more compliant for court for for institutional diligence and and as time passed the platform got better and better in terms of its ability to be compliant.

In other words, Mark to market pricing on a 12 hour cycle and I had two specific wallets that held both freely trading and locked tokens and I didn't trade the account. I was just long 30 something positions. And what happened was two Saturdays ago, all the cash that was in there, if there was any cash USD C and all the tokens were basically removed, they were hacked or they were.

In other words, Mark to market pricing on the 12 hour cycle and I had two specific wallets that held both freely trading and locked tokens and I didn't trade the account. I was just long 30 something positions. And what happened was two Saturdays ago, all the cash that was in there, if there was any cash, USB C and all the tokens were basically removed, swept. How does somebody sweep clean your account? I don't know exactly.

Right. That's that's the question. That's the question I wanted to ask, and I want to know where it went. And there's all kinds of room rumors and innuendos about what happened, including a hack. The Bahamian government swept the FTF US nobody knows yet, because the key now is to get access to the files.

Exactly, exactly. Grant, that's that's the question. That's the question I wanted to ask, and I want to know where it went. And there's all kinds of room rumors and innuendos about what happened, including a hack the Bahamian government swept to FTX US. Nobody knows yet, because the key now is to get access to the files. And John Ray, who is now testifying in a few hours, will start to unpeel that onion. He will be able to, we think. We don't know yet.

Turn on the switch and get the backup files. Probably sitting on AWS servers. We don't know the only I I reached out to Sam Bankman free and it said where's my money?

I'd like to know where my money is.

Yeah, I called him on his cell phone, said hey Kevin, O'Leary here. Where's my money? What's wrong with that? And we got that's I thought he would know. I mean, after all.

He said the minute I went into bankruptcy, I was removed from the offices and access to the servers. I don't know where it is. That's a credible answer, but I want to find out. If he doesn't know, who does know? I'm going to keep going until I find out. Who knows?

Either you called him, you called him on his cell phone or what? Yeah, I called him on his cell phone. Said, hey Kevin, O'Leary here. Where's my money? What's wrong with that? And we got that's. I thought he would know. What did he say when you said where's my money? He said the minute I went into bankruptcy, I was removed from the offices and access to the servers. I don't know where it is. That's a credible answer, but I want to find out. If he doesn't know, who does know? I'm going to keep go

A couple of years ago, I think in Miami here I think Big .20.

A couple of years ago, I think in Miami here, I think Bitcoin 2021. That's when the dialogue started.

Probably the air like.

Yeah. No, I I I met, I met with him. He was a disruptive entrepreneur. I mean it. You know he he was raising money. He, he had, he had done around. When I got into it, the round it was already closed. They had to open it up for me and I because I argued to him. Listen, if I'm going to be a paid spokesperson I got to own equity in this thing. I mean, I don't. I don't do you know? I'm not a shell. I have to be an investor. I have to put my money where my mouth is. And that's what I did. Now you kn

I'm I feel obligated to go and figure out what occurred because there's not as many people in my situation particularly, you know, I think the credit committee would be a good perch for me to get in there and dig. But I I I don't think Sam can know where the money is because he doesn't have access to the files. I think John Ray might know where the money is. Somebody knows where the money is, and I'm going to find out who that is.

Them in Miami. OK. So you had already been told like when the first time you and I met, there was introductions. You know, somebody said, hey, Kevin, can you hook up with this guy? But you did. Did you do any due diligence on Sam before you met him or was the guy so hyped so hot and that you, your quote is everybody wanted in?

And you're like, was there some FOMO going on for you? Like, I don't want to miss out on this, this opportunity, because all the big names are coming in. Why shouldn't, why should I not be in with any of that happening for you?

Well, had I not been offered the paid spokesperson position, I don't think I would have got in. And yes, I would have had FOMO because I like to be involved in naison startups where I think the entrepreneur at the time has an opportunity to create a Unicorn. Yes, but that wasn't the case. My argument was look, you want me to be a paid spokesperson? No way. I do that unless I'm a shareholder. So you're going to have to figure that out. And I do that with most companies that I'm a paid spokesperso

And.

But also had heard that that Bain Capital had done diligence for Tiger on this platform and they still went ahead and made the investment. But you gotta put that in the context of what I said earlier. 8 out of 10 of these things lose. So you know, you can have fantastic due diligence that says go ahead and make this investment does not guarantee the outcome. 80% of the time you're wrong. Everybody that made that investment knew this. Now these alleged, you know, allegations of fraud and everythi

And obviously, we didn't know anything else in terms of transferring capital that will all become transparent when these records are released.

So.

Look, I mean, you're in a space where you guys take a lot more risk than I do in my real estate. I don't lose on 8 out of 10 of my deals like, you know.

I mean, I understand, I understand that, but I'm a venture investor too. 40% of my net worth is in real estate. That's a big chunk of it. That's twice usually what I put in any sector. So I like a lot. And but that doesn't mean I don't venture into private equity. And you know, I got to tell you, grant, I I make hundreds of investments. Do I get it?

Well, I understand. I understand that. But I'm a venture investor too. 40% of my net worth is in real estate. That's a big chunk of it. That's twice usually what I put in any sector. So I like real estate a lot. And but that doesn't mean I don't venture into private equity. And, you know, I got to tell you, grant, I I make hundreds of investments. Do I get it right all the time? No. Was this a really bad investment, 100% bad investment. But, you know, it doesn't change what I do tomorrow morning

But there's nothing I can do about it.

He looks a little squirrely to me, bro. Now, maybe I'm getting it in today's lens, but the first time I saw him, I'm like, yeah, I don't get it. Like, maybe it's the new tech thing and that's cool. And this is the genius. Unicorns look like this, but.

Everything to me about the cat looks like he's can't take care of himself unkept.

Uh, not. Doesn't have a lot of respect for for much of anything.

How much is that as true now based on what I'm seeing?

Well, Grant, you know Grant, I came up in the software industry. My first big company was educational software to advanced math and reading skills. We did read your rabbit. Where in the world Carmen San Diego missed all of these titles. I've worked with development teams for 25 years.

He's a coder. They're all like that. I mean, 99% of them are like that. I've worked with people like that. They're even farther down the spectrum than salmon bank free you. These are these are half art, half science guys like you. You know, you don't don't expect when you're, you know, this guy's an MIT grad. He's a coder. He understands the technology. I could show you a dozen more just like him. That's not, you know, what would make me or not make an investment in something? I mean, I've met a

I've met coders in the Planet Zoo Tron that I want to invest in.

Well, bro, like, like. But just because he's a coder and a smart dude doesn't mean he can manage cash.

Apparent.

Apparently not grant.

Like, I'm doing a deal right now. This guy tells me he's got the CEO, the X CEO of this big company, Big, You know, Fortune 50 company, and they're connected to the CIA. And he's got a person from the SEC. I said yeah, but have you seen where he lives? Have you seen his bank account? Do you know how he managed his money? Like, yeah, that that's fair.

Yeah, that that's fair enough. But you got to remember from the institutional point of view, this company was growing at 75% annually. That's extremely attractive in a nascent industry that nobody saw coming and lots of, you know, global competitors doing the same thing. And yet this was one that was founded domestically, which was very interesting to domestic institutions. Some domestic institutions can't invest internationally. So this was a solution for them if they wanted any exposure to cry

That would if anybody could claw back their their investment, they would, but they can't. And so now it's all about figuring out how to get some of this back. What is the recovery going to look like? And that's what we're starting today including you know Sam's predicament. Now he's got to clear his name if that's possible. He'll have his day in trial. That's all everybody should. Everybody should have that opportunity when when people allege they have done it. Fraudulent things. So we have a sy

Started.

What do you do you think the guys are fraud?

I don't know. I mean, you know why I keep saying that? People keep asking me that. Show me the data. I mean, I'm a data-driven guy.

Ronnie's gone, man.

Excel.

Except where has it gone to? Who took it? Did governments take it? Did sovereigns take it? Did it go to?

Think it's possible that the US government or some other government stepped in and robbed just robbed the wallets?

10.

10 guys have called me saying the Bahamian government has 600 million of it. I don't know. The only listen. I'm pretty good at this. Give me the records.

I'll tell you what happened to it.

Give me the records. I don't. There's no point in speculating this anymore. I mean, look, it's unfolding as it should, but I don't know why people wanna keep speculating. Where did it go? Give me the records. I'll tell you where it went. So that's simple. And every single record exists. The wire transfers into Alameda and FTX. They are auditable. Whether they went to a Fed transfer, ACH, swift code doesn't matter to me. Show me those records #2. Show me the meat blender of what Alameda was. That

Transactions. Another blender. We'll look at that. Any cryptocurrencies that went or came from either of those entities are on the blockchain, irrevocable. They could be. They could be audited.

Give me the records, I'll tell you what happened to it.

Who who has those records right now?

Don't know. That's why I'm starting, that's what.

Regarding and you as you as a spokesman of the company, you were you sitting on the border, anything.

Not no one just spoke.

No, I've not said nothing on the board and I'm not. No one's a spokesperson or anything now. This is a bankrupt entity, obviously.

Back then, back then, like, like if I was doing that deal again, I'm trying to learn from this, and I think the audience could learn what due diligence should a person do and what rights should they have if they're going to be a spokesman? Because I imagine this could possibly affect some of your other endorsements, yes or no.

I don't. I don't think so because I've been very transparent and I'm honest about it. I didn't lose anybody else's money. I lost my own. I haven't had anything like that happen. And I've got, you know, multiple other engagements. I'm negotiating now. I mean, you know, I'm known as a honest, straightforward, straight shooting person. Sometimes people don't like the truth. You know that to be a fact. That's what I do. And in this case, look, I had an option. I could have just let this thing go and

What happened to the money? On behalf of all the account holders and all the shareholders and myself, I don't like making mistakes. I like to learn from them. I want to find out exactly what happened. And I feel I have a pretty interesting perch upon which to do that. And I will be 100 transparent with everybody what I find. I keep telling everybody that I'll listen and I'll say the same to Congress tomorrow.

Get me the records and I'll tell you what happened.

So what due diligence would you do today if if you could go backwards?

I'm not sure you could diligence out what occurred here. I mean look I think it's impossible you can't get it right every time. I already said eight out of 10 times adventure investing and this is certainly venture you're going to get it wrong for multiple reasons. One of them is this reason sometimes doesn't stop me from doing what I'm doing. I'm still a huge believer in crypto. I think the potential is incredible. I think the the microscope that's going on to this sector now the amount of scru

I'm not sure you could diligence out what occurred here. I mean look I think it's impossible you can't get it right every time. I already said eight out of 10 times adventure investing and this is certainly venture you're going to get it wrong for multiple reasons. One of them's this reason sometimes doesn't stop me from doing what I'm doing. I'm still a huge believer in crypto. I think the potential is incredible. I think the the microscope that's going on to this sector now the amount of scrut

Exchanges are going to get, I mean this is going to clean up this sector in a huge way. Yeah. And, and I agree with that couple of years.

Exchanges are going to get, I mean this is going to clean up this sector in a huge way and that that it might take a couple of years, but I'm going to be investing and I'm going to continue to, I'm going to invest in other entrepreneurs. You know, I I should also clear up. I made a statement saying that I would invest in sand banquet free. Obviously, I don't invest in people that are charged with fraud. However, I have invested multiple times and will continue to do so.

Many entrepreneurs that have had catastrophic failures, I've invested in them because they've learned from that experience. Now we don't know the outcome of what's going to happen to Sam Bank for free. Will he ever be investable again? Who knows? The process is starting now.

Betting right now whether he's ever, whether anybody would support him again. What would you say? I don't know because.

I don't know because we don't have any records. We don't.

Guys, guys. Radioactive garbage at this moment. Yeah, yeah, right.

Yeah, yeah, right now he is. But you could there's there's plenty, plenty of people that have been cancelled essentially that have come back because they have merit. I don't know if that ever happens to sandbag, but free but my whole point is.

You know, we've got a herd mentality here and that's OK. You can see people really hating on this guy. I totally get it.

Let him have his day in court like everybody else gets. Let him have his day in court, and if it doesn't work out for him, let the chips fall where they may.

OK. So while I agree with you that you know eight out of 10 could be losses and you can't predict that.

How can I do due diligence on the individual? This this, this I believe will be a failure based on an individual.

Like, do I meet the CFO? I don't think anybody even met. There was one chick between him and the money.

Yeah, I mean the systems in place obviously weren't bolstered. I mean usually what happens in a startup, it's, it's chaotic. And then you start hiring professionals. He didn't do enough of that. Clearly the relationship between Alameda and FTX is alleged to be not proper. Let's see what the records say. That's classic. You got to get the records for that one to see which way the the cash went, where it went, when it went, what it was used for, how much leverage all that stuff in it. That's, you

That complicated a situation people think it is. It isn't. All you have to do is follow the cash. That's all. All you have to do it. You know that people, people lie. Cash doesn't. And so and so at the end of the day.

Do you think do you think that that is a good?

Due diligence step to find out how somebody runs their own personal money before you invest with.

Ohh yeah. I always look at cash flow. I look at 2 numbers I look at.

Ohh, yeah, I always look at cash flow. I look at 2 numbers, I look at revenue and I look at free cash flow. But remember this was, this is for a typical industry, I mean one of the industries in the 11 sectors.

This industry's nascent. This industry is brand new. This is this, this industry at that time was was the Wild West and to a certain extent still is. I mean but the promise of it to reduce costs and financial services is so prevalent that I think you will see legislation and the opportunity to lead is really at at the at the feet of Congress now to set policy. And I think they will. I think it'll take time. I'm still going to be an advocate for this. I'm still going to speak out for it. I'll sti

The, you know, the bows and arrows, slings and arrows. I mean, all the all the noise, you know, people ask me all the time about social media and does it bother me when somebody tweets something horrific?

I don't care. It's noise. I care about my family, my friends and the truth. That's all I care about. The rest, irrelevant noise. And that's what it is. And you gotta you have to have fixed skin to do what I do, grant.

You're definitely, you're definitely doing a great job of handling the, the, the, the, you know, the arrows and the the the issues and I appreciate that you're being so transparent and.

Being on the offense on this. OK, but what I what I'd like to know is and guys they're saying they're getting some feedback. Hey Johnny.

I'm getting a lot of people saying.

How do I?

What things could I do? Somebody's gonna invest in Cardone capital. Do you recommend they come see my offices?

Yeah. I recommend they come to your office. I recommend they look at your track record. I recommend they go back and look at your financial statements, look at your cash flows, look at your distributions. That's standard due diligence. I think you stack up.

And that that kind of people around me.

Of course. Look at the team. I mean, we do that all the time. But you?

Command that that if I said I'm putting I'm leaving $80 million in the deal that you would ask me. Well then show me your $80 million. Is that all those all four? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I'd like to see skin in the game and any deal invested.

Then why didn't anybody do that?

Look, Sam Bankman freed owned a majority of the company, but what's going to happen here, let me tell you what's going to happen over the next few weeks. That cap table, the 90 plus people, if you look at this complaint primarily it's supporting their claim of reimbursement, the equity shareholders of FTX. So what is going to occur now is a forensic audit of all use of liquid assets off the balance sheet of FDX prior to bankruptcy and that is the right thing to do.

Usually when a company goes bankrupt in a catastrophic collapse like this, all you have to do is look at where the cash went. Not the crypto tokens, not the coins, not all that stuff, just the cash. Where did the cash go? And then you look for interrelated transactions. Did did one partner take it out? I mean, all of this stuff is standard procedure and it's going to happen as soon as somebody gets the records. Now I'd like to get the records.

Other people want to get the records. I've, as I said, I've applied to the credit committee. I will get the records we.

It's going. It's not that complicated. It really isn't. It's not that complicated. Give me the records. I'll tell you what happened.

My mic when I'm not speaking, Johnny, that's what they're saying, yeah.

Do you think this guy gets time?

Don't know, you know, it really depends on what happens in in court and and.

I know you don't know, man. I know you don't know. But like, do you think he gets time?

You know, I asked. I answered that by saying I don't know, because if you go back to 070809.

With a meta collapse 100 times bigger than this, and like I, I don't recall any banker going to jail. Do you?

And so.

And so, you know, maybe his defense is I didn't know what's going on. If that's true, OK, then you're just your defense is I'm an idiot. But I don't know what happens when people try been asking me for 48 hours, you know, why am I not call it why? Why?

You can't claim he's an idiot, though. He can't because he's a coder, an engineer, and an MIT grad, so he can't say.

Yeah, I, I I get it. But, you know, people are asking me why aren't you saying that he's.

It's a fraud and a criminal because in my world, grant.

That's.

Presumed innocent in this great country until proven otherwise. That's how we do it. And I defend anybodies, right? For a fair trial. Anybody. Anybody, even someone who lost me $10 million, that's who I am. That's what I say. And I'm never going to change that so you can shoot a million hateful tweets at me. I don't give a peep about that.

So how much heat are you getting over this right now?

I could cook a BBQ with the heat right now. Usually I could do a chicken over the spit on it.

I'm OK with it.

Yeah, I'm OK.

I don't. I don't care. It doesn't matter. It's not gonna change my mind. I'm still gonna March up to the.

They they used to call you Mr Wonderful. What are they calling you right now?

This is why I missed the wonderful. I tell the truth. That's the whole point. Sometimes you don't like it. Too bad. It's still the truth. Nothing's gonna change. And we're.

This is why I'm Mr wonderful. I tell the truth. That's the whole point. Sometimes you don't like it. Too bad. It's still the truth. Nothing's going to change. And we're going to get to the truth of this too.

I mean, I don't. I can't imagine someone not giving anyone the right in America the right to a fair trial.

What is that? What is that?

Gonna find out this kid was incompetent as a businessman.

Really. That he didn't pay attention to the money? How much money did he give to the Democratic Party? I mean, I've seen things like billions and billions of dollars.

And I'll tell them.

Yeah. There and there you have it, right. You've seen stuff. You're seeing rumor. You've seen any window. Why do we have to do it? What? What? Who cares? Just give me the records. I'll tell you. It's the scent. What he gave them. And I'll tell him to tell. I'll tell you that he gave the Republicans. I'll tell you. In fact, I'll tell you where we sent went. Every single sin.

Everything. Yeah, but why? Yeah, I guess I'm just, I'm just hung up on why no one did this due diligence. Some of the biggest financial.

Question every.

Well, you know, and I guess that'll be a question everybody tries to answer too, but it's not going to change the nature of venture investing. It's not going to change the fact that eight out of 10 fail. It's not going to stop fraud from happening. If indeed fraud occurred here and we don't know yet. It's not going to change incompetence in management. It's not going to change anything about the crypto markets. They saw potential in the end, it's not going to change anything. We just have to get

Just to get to them, what is the what is the aftermath or the effect on say Coinbase? So crypto.com.

I would think that the biggest effect right now is if you're an unregulated exchange attached or a broker dealer, the chance you're going to get licensed anywhere on Earth.

That's a personal assessment, OK? I think every regulator is gonna wake up to this.

Like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.

Can't take that risk. I also think that any exchange that is in dispute.

With their regulator is not going to get institutional capital, not significant amount invested in it.

Institutions have not participated in crypto, and they're not going.

They're not going to till the guardrails are on. And we and we we regulate the exchanges just like we regulate the New York Stock Exchange and and the.

NYSE and the NASDAQ the same way. You need you need the proof of reserves, you need the scrutiny of audit, you need to have the regulators completely transparent through it, and you have to have the law to abide and to be complied by.

This is going to set back the.

This is going to set back the growth of those exchanges dramatically, probably have a very significant reduction if there was any institutional capital involved.

No institutional manager wants to be seen sitting in an exchange that's not regulated right now.

Rightly, this is gonna keep happening if these, if these, we're gonna keep having bankruptcies because these exchanges come along, they have some token that gets up to billions of dollars of value and then all of a sudden there's a run on it. People want to go back to the currency like the Swiss franc or the British pound or the euro or the US dollar, and they don't have those reserves. They never were forced to. They weren't regulated. They had no transparency. They had no proof that they had t

Keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different outcome. There will not be a different outcome. More zeros are coming.

When chef them these other guys say, hey bitcoins going to 0, this whole crypto space is a fraud and a scam. What? What is your response to those things?

Nothing to do with Bitcoin, nothing to do with crypto. It has to do with an onion, right? Unregulated exchange that was not compliant with anything. And so, you know, this could happen again if we don't have regulation. But crypto itself and Bitcoin itself, they're surviving forever. That genies out of the bottle. I bought more. I bought more Bitcoin recently when it went below 17.

Price what price you bought at?

Just under just under 17, I'm I'm adding to my position.

Yeah.

OK, let's shift gears a second. Where, where, where do you think this economy is right now? They're saying that we're not in a recession, recession. I believe that we are.

Change the definition of this thing. What? What do you what do you see going on right now?

Yeah, it's very interesting. You bring up a good point. This is an unusual recession.

Red does another 50.

Like to see that?

We're starting to see slow.

Real estate. Commercial real estate because.

Data. The CPI data.

Terms of how it reads.

This is too far a lagging index. It's not Curry.

And that's been a bit of a problem, so we're probably.

We're going the other way. We don't, we don't. The CPI numbers today suggested we're 7% you you're saying you don't really trust that number in present time to be at. No, I don't.

No, I don't. I don't think it's 7% like my guess is a little lower, which is why I think that the Fed is in the 8th or not.

It had, you know, different market as you know well, because this is what you do. There's different dynamics and different markets in in multifamily and apartment.

Different.

Lending practices and different deals to be had.

Right now here in Miami, I look at Mark.

Miami.

Where I invest in real estate, the rental market is still very, very strong here, here, on, on.

She's impossible to get her into right now.

Prices are up from even the building I'm in right now.

Daily.

We're up about 8%.

So over last year just on rental rates?

Nothing there's.

Sale, but if there's no correction on the downside of pricing it demand in these locations like.

Vacation properties have still not corrected yet, but that's not the same for other areas, particularly commercial real estate. Cap rates are definitely going up in commercial real estate as many of them have to be repurposed in terms of the use.

So it's a mixed bag. Good managers and I'll give you credit on this grant because you've been doing this a long time. Understand the arbitrage of opportunity when sometimes volatility is a good thing when you're investing real estate, I'm sure you're taking advantage of that.

So yeah, 1000, so we we just can't buy anything yet. But let me, let me give you an example and I don't hear anybody talking about this.

A group called Starwood bought 30,000 units last year.

I'm shocked that nobody's covering this story. Just that's just one group. Blackstone or Black Blackstone would have bought just as much.

All of this is on adjustable money, Kevin.

So with with some cap rate protection, right all that the cap rate will be expiring either this December or next December, one of the two.

Those rates will go from 3% to 7 1/2% on 30,000 units.

And you got redemptions of being being required by the big institutions, big endowments, big hedge funds saying the money, I'm Hartford, I want $2 billion back. Florida food chain, their money back.

Can't raise money like they were.

Uh.

Have a three to five year cycle because they want their fees. We don't. We have a 10 year cycle, I don't care what happened. Valuations I know down 14 or 15%.

Yeah, just checking because I gotta get to my flight, so I got a few more minutes, yeah.

Have this car.

So when these groups have to start redemptions, they've already frozen their redemptions at black. They bought 30,000 units in those last 12 month cycle. Those rates are adjusting.

And prep time.

They will have to sell those assets. They don't.

Well, that's the whole point. You're, you're very good as an opportunist to find these arbitrage pricing. You're right. There is a correction going on in institutional capital. There's no question that's changing. After riding the bull market for 27 years in real estate, they're reallocating assets to other sectors, doesn't mean there is an opportunity in real estate. I've always said this about real estate, location, location, location, location, location. I when I buy into a building or I buy

Do a lot of time figuring out is this the right location for the next 7 to 10 years? Because I'm gonna be in that deal at least that long if it's cash flowing. And I practically never sell my real estate because I can't replace it or nor do I want to pay the capital gains on it. And it's cash flowing. I love cash flow. Everybody knows that.

So, you know, but how much damage if one group has 30,000 units with adjustables?

That's just one group. I mean, I can give you 50 of these guys.

Damage happens and where does this, where, where, where does the like? You're not going to have enough buyers to grab this real estate.

So the price will correct.

Well, price the prices will correct. That's the whole point. I mean the the whole point is if if you think that's gonna happen you don't buy any.

You wait. You wait for a gap down 1015. Twenty 25%.

Great fortunes have been built when there's blood in the streets, in real estate, when cap rates have gone from 4 to 9. That kind of craziness. And it can happen. It depends how, how? How high.

Rates go and I've I've seen this movie so many times before, it just happens over and over again. And this.

It's a cycle. It used to be 7 year cycles. We haven't had a cycle in 20 years, so.

Well, the last cycle basically killed the everyday person. This cycle could involve some of the biggest institutions in the world. You agree with that?

Yeah, Poopoo happens Grant, but I'll tell you they're diversified. Most institutions and I work for them in the indexing business do not allow any position to be more than 20%. In other words real estates held to 20 very often. In addition, no one building is more than 5% of the portfolios value. So you know and they diversify themselves geography, you know through geography and through country and through location, through class of asset. Look it's going to be rough but you know these guys are.

Pretty good at it. There's a lot of they know they're big boys.

In this case, Kevin, they, they have you know, they got their hotel positions, office positions. They can't, they can't do anything in office because depth 9% or an office building, we just bought one in Scottsdale, paid cash for it because the debt was terrible.

They can't go to their hotel portfolio, so they're going to have to go sell the thing they don't want to sell, which is their apartments, which is a cash flow. I listen, if you're asking me, do I think there's going to be volatility in real estate pricing 100?

Yeah. Well, I I listen, if if you're asking me do I think there's going to be volatility in real estate pricing 100% if you're nimble and you have cash as it sounds like you might, there'll be some great opportunities. I totally get that, but that's happening. That's how you have to operate.

What I'm saying to you is I'm not, I'm not a I'm not a coder or engineer or MIT grad, but, but what I did was three or four years ago, we started going crowdfunding.

To the regular everyday family, you know, not the o'learys and the gates and all you rich people, everyday people accredited and nonaccredited and saying, hey, you guys can invest in the same pool next to me in the same asset. I didn't go to the institutions in the blackstones, my buddy were buddies were telling me dude just take your 100 million, go to Goldman, they'll give you a billion, do the deal. And I'm like, I don't want to do business with Goldman. I don't want them to put a gun to my h

Now here we are. I'm, I'm probably going to be the only buyer at.

You know.

Building, because all the institutions have the same problems of redemptions.

I agree. I mean look it it's sort of it's not just that the the the flow of capital to invest in any asset class right now is slow dramatically due to the.

And the the you know the the.

This FX thing ever.

Investors are very skittish right now. I talked to them every day from 5:30 in the morning on. I haven't seen anybody do a deal. Now in two weeks, everybody's calling each other to each other saying, what are you doing? You're putting any money to work.

Then December 15th, so the drop off date, you know.

Think about that.

All in the mix and I think we're gonna take the little pause that refreshes here and regroup sometime in the first week in January and reassess the situation. That's what's going to happen in markets as well. Things are going to start slowing down next week and and.

What happens to the hundreds of companies, publicly traded companies that are zombies and have been for years?

They stay zombies. That's what happens. You know you can't.

Well, it depends how much data. It's all based on leverage. The cycles get cleansed through leverage. Leverage is always the culprit that takes the equity to zero. That's why I respect that so much and why I pour it in my own balance sheets. I don't use it very much. I don't.

We'll see, but.

That always is the reason I bet you by the time this is over and we look at the FX going back to that story, leverage is going to be a factor there too. We'll see. But at the bottom line is you have to be.

And.

Leverage. There'll be a cleansing because you know, if you're borrowing money 3% you can really, it's not a problem. You're boring at 7, your costs are more than doubled and I think a lot of that's going to be happening.

Borrow money now for factoring or you know for small business it's it's gonna be in some cases.

And that's just the way it is and that's the cycle we're in and I think.

The economy will adjust. We're in a remarkable situation. People are now talking soft landing. Who know?

I would say, you know, raise some cash here, stay nimble, be careful, make sure you're diversified. That's what I'm doing. This is the standard advice.

For generations and this isn't anything new.

You think in your 65 years. By the way, I hope I look as good as you do when I'm I'm your age.

I got, I got 10 or 15 years, but do you think or can you remember a time when the Fed was ever successful?

Managing inflation?

No, haven't seen it? No.

You know.

I don't know of one time in my lifetime whether it ever worked. Yeah.

Yeah, OK, that's true. But you know, there's always a first, and I don't know if this will be it, but so far this has been a very perplexing.

You know, recession, I'm having a hard time hiring people grant a really hard time and and that's never the case in a recession. So I'm not sure we're in one yet. I'm sure one's coming maybe, who knows. But.

Money offering more money, because that typically works for us? Yeah, I guess.

Yeah, I get that. But my my increase is on my own operating company this year, the highest ever, just to retaining talent ever. Ever.

Ever. It's so competitive. So, you know, telling me we're in a recession, I'm having a hard time buying it right now.

Let me call me when we have a recession, please, because as far as I'm concerned, we're not in it yet.

So you're out, you're out at night at in Miami. You're you're not seeing a recession, you're seeing people spending money the way they were.

Consumers are flush with cash still, maybe it burns out next year.

Yep.

That your your watch inventory is going down in value.

Down 28%, it's still up 400.

It's down 28%. It's still up 400 in the last 36 months, up 400, down 28. That's still it's better than the S&P 500.

As they were trading cars, they they can't sell their cars. Guys that were flipping homes, that's over. Housing's gonna fall off a damn Cliff. How we how are we not in a recession?

A million brokerage mortgage people out of, out of, out of jobs already. Well, that that.

Well, that that's what's so perplexing, grant. You gotta wait till all. You gotta have unemployment. You gotta have unemployment in a recession. How is it possible that we're still fully, fully employed? Maybe we got to wait a few months. OK, that's.

Maybe we're getting lied. Maybe we're not getting the real.

Yeah, I mean, that would be our first grant. I gotta wrap it up soon. I gotta get on that plane and go to Washington.

Hey, man, look, I Kevin, I appreciate it. One last thing. What advice would you give a small business owner right now?

To counter or take advantage or be opportunist during this 2023 sun forward.

I'm unbreakable.

Reduce leverage if you can #1 just if you have debt, try and pay it off a little more aggressively, making sure you're keeping an eye on the free cash flow. That's number one and always been been #1. Always ask yourself.

Where's the next incremental dollar coming from? Where's my next sale coming from? And I keep telling all my CEOs this, a lot of them are consumer goods and service income, income, income. But it's it's this number one is the customer, #2 is the customer, #3 is the customer. You focus on the customer. You take care of the customer, they'll take care of you. Customers that believe they're being well serviced and taken care of will are willing to pay more and stick longer than ones that don't.

Take care of the customer. I keep telling everybody that I've been through this before many, many times. My companies that really were customer focused were the ones that survived.

Kevin O'Leary, thank you so much. Appreciate you man. I hope this is a good warm up for you for Congress.

You're you're worse than any congressman, grant, let me tell you.

I'll tell you. Hey, I appreciate you, man. Good luck to you. I hope you get through this anytime you want to take a bet, $1000. This guy spent ten years in prison or more.

You know, and I don't wanna go there. I'm so glad that everybody in.

How about, well, we'll we'll bet your choice of wine. Yeah, yeah.

I don't care who you only reason this country.

Yeah, yeah. I I my thing is I just want everybody in America to get a fair trial. Everybody. I don't care who you are. I don't care who you are. The only reason this country is so great is we have a justice system. You may not like it. We got problems.

But damn, the law matters here, and that's what I care about.

One one thing that makes it great. There's a whole bunch of other stuff too, though. But this guy needs to go to jail, bro.

I got it. I hear you. I hear your messaging. Alright, take care.

Thanks. Bye, bye.

Alright, safe flight. Alright, see ya. Thanks. OK guys. Leary, this is player.

Some of the most interesting people on the planet. You guys on Twitter spaces, thanks for joining me today. Maybe I'll come back and talk to you guys and get some feedback. Keep that open. You guys on the Cardone zone, thank you. Please subscribe to the channel this week. I'm going to have Robert Malone on. And we got the doctor, Robert Malone, who just got let back onto Twitter spaces and talking to him about fouchy, the vaccine, COVID, ivermectin, all the things we used to not be able to talk

Call this something.

Dana White.

We were violators. They called us something nasty. Anti Baxters, conspiracy violators. Call me all kind of bad names. That's what we do in the Cardone zone. We bring you great people. I got interviews coming up with Kevin Turner, another one with usher. Who do we have? Dana wells? Ryan Fournier. Man, I'm. I'm trying to bring everybody to you. Like I got it. Like we got a list.

50 people that I interview every week and I'll bring to you about the recession, about the economy, about your sales, about your marketing, about what you need to do. I tell you what I wish Kevin would have said. Hey man, I should have done more due diligence on the individual, on the person should have met him. I should have spent more time with him. This is one thing that I don't not do. I want to meet the principal. I want to see where the principal lives. I want to see how they act when they

How do they roll with their money?

You got 50 million. Show me your 50 million. I'll tell you guys I got $318 million in cash, OK, show it to me. Why am I telling you if I can't show it to you? If I told you I built an app in two days, show me the damn app you built in two days. That's more than fair enough that people won't show it to you. Guess what?

Have it? OK. If they get offended by it, they ain't got it. Thanks for watching the Cardones own. Please subscribe to the channel and put below who you would like to see me interview. Thanks a lot.

OK, you guys on Twitter spaces. Where? Where's my Twitter spaces?

OK.

You're gone. I can't find anybody to help me. You you can't leave me in the middle of OK. Hey. Hey. How bad was the audio, Nelson?

I mean, it was bad at the start, but I I think we got it figured out.

Cause cause I'm getting ready for this Twitter spaces this weekend.

Grant all, it was just that.

It was just what?

I can't hear you.

Yeah, I mean, as long as everybody on stage mutes their mic, bro, when yours is on, as long as everybody mutes when your mic is on, then we should be good.

Grant, can you hear me?

Can you guys hear me?

Yeah, I can hear you now.

Yeah, as long as everybody on stage mutes out.

You gotta talk, though. It doesn't work if you don't talk.

He was talking grant.

God damn you can't hear me, bro.

Frank, can you hear me?

Yeah, bro.

Great. Are you fucking with me, man?

As long.

Just keep talking, David.

Grant it.

It's as long as everybody mutes out when your mic is on, then we're good to go.

Hey, Nelson. Can you hear me, Nelson?

Can you hear us, Grant?

I can hear David, can you hear me?

Yes, yes.

I can hear Nelson.

OK, they can't hear me.

Grant, can you hear me?

Grant.

I can hear you.

No result.

Grant, So what Nelson was saying is, is that when Kevin's talking you, you're mute, your mic has to be muted, otherwise there's a really bad echo.

OK, so.

My mic has to be. My mic has to be muted because you guys must be hearing it through the speakers.

We were picking up. Yeah. I don't know if you were streaming on YouTube, but we were.

Yeah.

I mean, we can hear you right now, grant. You're good. We can hear you.

Got it, got it.

And we we were hearing a back, we were hearing an echo when Kevin was speaking because we we were hearing it in the background.

Yeah, yeah. How? How bad was it?

It's pretty bad.

I mean, it was bad bro, but you figured it out.

Yeah. So where people dropping off as we as we did as as the echo.

Stanley.

I can't see.

No, we kept a good audience. But you know, it's just like if you're doing a live interview like that on another platform like YouTube, we can hear the background. So, so maybe you got to have some, but like I was me and Nelson were texting Annie. And when after you ask Kevin a question, when Kevin starts speaking, somebody has to mute your mic on Twitter spaces.

Yeah. OK. So the OK, Now let's just transition. We'll fix it because what I'm concerned about is this Friday, Saturday and Sunday, how we're going to run that.

So this is what Twitter space has got to figure out how to.

How to have this run through?

Yeah.

Well, no, it's not. It's not that grand. It's just we we're picking up the background and you were streaming in the background. So if you're doing that again, somebody's gonna need to manage your account on Twitter spaces because you obviously can't do it. You're going to be on stage.

Yeah.

Hey, question, question. Hey, Grant, we got you at noon on our show. I don't know if you guys want to open like keep the Twitter spaces open and just do it on like just keep the the link open as well while you're on our zoom at noon.

That might be an idea.

Yeah, we could. Whose show am I doing today?

Mine, uh, at at.

Oh, OK.

David.

Do you?

Yeah, yeah. I just wanna see if we can work this out though, before Friday. I got enough time to figure it out, but we will. So anyway, let's transition real quick. And David, I'll be there at noon, might be a few minutes late. What? What? Love to hear from the audience. What what you thought about Kevin's answers?

Hey, hey, Nelson.

I mean, bro, who gave you know bro, he got he. I mean his perspective was interesting bro.

Yeah, just talk guys. You you don't have to hang Nelson. Just start talking and I and I don't hear Nelson.

You guys can't hear me?

Yeah.

Plugging it in.

Now Nelson Blop Nelson, I can hear you drop down as co-host and then grant bring Nelson back up and it'll it'll reset his audio. Uh, but all you would have to do grant on your end is either putting a headphone on the zoom side and then and then that way when when you have a speaker on zoom and in Twitter spaces, the audio will only come through one time.

And then that that way you're good.

OK, say that again.

Yeah.

Yeah. So when you have like a speaker that's on zoom and Twitter space, uh, you have to have a earphone in on zoom and then that way the zoom crowd can hear them and then we can hear them on Twitter space. And that way it's not, it's not talking over each other because Kevin, when he would talk, we would hear him twice on zoom and in Twitter.

Uh-huh. OK. Where's Johnny?

Alright. Am I good now? Can you guys hear me now?

OK.

Yeah, finally.

OK God damn bro man, they need to figure this out. But Grant, I think as long as your mic is unmuted and everybody else is mute.

During the the real estate summit, then you should be good, bro.

I think that's what it is. As long as it's only you talking then you should be good.

Yeah. You're saying my mic would be on mute?

No, no, you can't do that, Nelson.

No, everybody else, everybody else on mute and only grants Mike on.

Then you should be good.

Yeah, got it. Got it.

And got it. OK.

OK, let's let's switch now to Kevin O'Leary.

But, you know, I like Kevin. He's my friend. But but some of his answers seemed a little, little, little.

Little wrote to me.

Little automatic, like, OK, yeah, I know you're going to Congress. Yeah. Show me the money dotted out, all that's great. But bro, why didn't you do more due diligence? I I still don't have a question, an answer to that question when I heard him say over and over, well, you can't do enough due diligence. You're just going to lose money 80% of the time. I'm like, I'm not willing to accept that. Where you guys at on this?

Why not one today's update?

The 100% bro. Dude, I was shocked with some of the answers he was giving and on top of that, he said he might invest it. Invest in a guy again. I mean, that blew my mind.

OK, I'm doing now.

He's a paid ambassador. Why wouldn't he say that?

That that blew my mind, bro. I'm not gonna lie to you guys that my mind exploded when I heard that. So.

I don't know, man. It seems like there's more to it that he's not willing to make public. I think that's what the deal is.

Anybody on stage? Feel free to jump in. Just jump in.

Can you hear me?

Yeah, 100%.

I was just gonna say I think that, like you said, he's a paid ambassador from FT X, so he's got special interests, that's for sure.

Joseph, Billy Todd, any of you guys on stage just jump in, I'll meet your mics and jump in.

Hey man, I I I think it's the same way man. When someone and again, I I don't know the whole back story and how much GIF Kevins highly invested or was invested in FTX, but I know just from my past.

When someone is highly invested in a product, I'll I'll take safe Moon for example. The this, this group of people have literally, no matter how much they've dropped, how much money people have lost, people still have so much money and hope into safe moon that they'll tell everyone it's still going to the moon. Even though the the owner took you know, $2,000,000 out of the liquidity pool that they told us from the get go was locked for five years. They took that out before even a year had passed

Umm.

That was my impression I was getting, you know, and it's one of those things of high hopes, but.

Let me ask you this, do you think Kevin gets indicted?

I get sued.

Ohh I I don't know man. I don't know how deep is his hands were in the SBF pockets, but I don't know man for how big that just blew up. I I can't see anyone defending that dude right now.

I mean, bro, like, I I respect Kevin O'Leary, you know, number one, you know who he is, what he's achieved, you know? Secondly, he's a buddy of grants. But I'm not going to lie to you, bro. A lot of those answers he was giving today, bro.

I don't know man. I really don't know what problem this is. This is weird. You know, SPF in my opinion deserves to go down for a very long time and for Kevin, you know, to come up here and say that, Umm, you know, innocent till proven guilty, essentially. I I don't know bro. Just doesn't sit well with me, bro. But.

I'm gonna just say it because I don't care. It's, I mean, it's very clear. Like I said, he's a paid ambassador, so he's got, he's, it's a biased opinion. I think there's obviously more dirty shit going on in the background, and we just saw it. I wish the audio would have been better so we can get clips and send that all throughout the Internet because something is something's fishy for sure.

Is there a recording of this one somewhere?

Yeah, this is true.

It is, but we're having trouble with the audio. Um, but once the space is closed, you can go back and skim through it and see what we can. We can be. I know I will. I'm going to be going back through looking for clips.

Very interesting, man. I'm director and Joseph. You guys want to say something? You guys on stage?

Unfortunately, I didn't hear it. Nelson, I got your notification literally just now and I did not hear it, so it's hard for me to speak to it.

Joseph, go ahead.

That being said, Speaking of notifications, make sure you're clicking on grant. Nelson and myself, we're all me and Nelson are always with Grant doing these rooms. You wanna be notified, click the bell. Umm, go ahead, Nelson.

And I'm trying to get everybody on stage to speak. Go ahead, Joseph.

Ohh yeah.

Joseph.

He dropped off.

Alright, let me, let me make a phone call. David, take care of this.

I got you, David. How are you doing, my friend?

What's cracking?

Yeah, clubhouse, exactly.

I know. I think I remember you from clubhouse. I think you have an interview with Grant right now. Were you in the room earlier for the interview? Did you hear any of that?

No, I popped it. I I wanted to hear it. I just been I I had to get to the studio here for this thing we're doing with Grant. But well by the way anybody can join that if you want to join that. So we're doing a live zoom and then it we're going to release it as a podcast as well. So it should be fine. I did. Listen man, I I've been following this whole SBI was trying to do. SBF was on a world tour, which was really strange. He was he was speaking to everyone. So I think I think it's good Kevin O'

Yeah, I would encourage everybody to go back and listen to it because there are definitely a lot of my eyebrow raised. A couple times I did a couple of the rocks, huh? A couple of scooby-doo said. What the hell did he just say?

David, how do you watch it again? Is it like, is it a replace type of thing like clubhouse?

Yes. So once this space is closed the recording will be available. So you just go to Grant's profile, pull up the the recording and and just skim through it. Again. Sorry about the audio, this is just.

David, can you hear me?

The other thing, the other thing, hey, I wanna ask a real quick, David, do do you guys think Kevin O'Leary getting $15 million?

And saying he lost it is different than somebody investing $15 million and losing it.

Yeah.

I think so.

100%.

100% I mean, I listen. If if you're in the room, hit the request button, I'm going to bring you up to the stage. Let's have a conversation and let's actually go down the rabbit hole when it comes to the interview interview we all just heard right now. Because I mean, listen.

I don't know, man. It seems like Kevin is roped into this thing, man, because he's not saying. He's not saying a lot, man. And yeah, I think it's very interesting. So, Mellie, were you here for the interview?

I wasn't. I just got here. I'm super bummed I missed it, but I'm going to listen to it on the replay.

Perfect.

Well, what? We gonna bring it down for you right now? So you don't need to go anywhere. If you were here for the interview, hit the request button. I'm going to bring you up to the stage real quick and let's dive into this thing, man. I mean, listen, I said it before, the one thing for me that made me tilt my head back and I was like, what? He actually alluded to the fact that he wouldn't mind investing in somebody like FT and Sam Bankman fried again.

That shit right there. I was like, hold up.

It was like hold up. That's very interesting. So Kevin, Ace, I just brought you guys up to the stage real quick. But David, I mean, how did you feel when he said that or essentially alluded to that?

Me, David or David M?

Man, we got two. God damn Davis the first David, man, let's go.

Yeah, that's fine. David wasn't here. The other David wasn't for the interview. But I'll tell you, I almost dropped my phone. I I mean that there's so many questions I wanted to ask. I mean, it just sounds just like.

Sam's, you know, media tour. It sounds like Kevin is doing a media tour. Maybe he got prepaid, I don't know. But he's an ambassador. He is an ambassador of FTX. So he's.

You know, he's probably still got a paid vested interest in that. That's why he has to say it. I don't know, man. It's just very, very fishy to me. It was.

I mean, do you think, do you think he's still?

Talk to Kevin. I love Kevin, but that was just something that I did not expect him to say.

Absolutely.

Dave, do you think he's still locked in to some NDA or something like that that prevents him from saying certain things?

Definitely, yeah.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Because you. He was dancing around a lot of those questions. Like it was like he had a script for every single question. And, you know, rightfully so, he's heading down to Congress right now to go testify. So I'm like, God damn, Mr O'Leary. I mean Mr wonderful, God damn, this is different. But let.

Yeah, I would, I would encourage everybody to go through the the recording and again we're trying to get things ready for this weekend. So sorry there was a little, there was a little echo there for a while, but go through the recordings and find some clips and share them on social media. We want to make sure that that, that those those parts get out.

Shit, bro, I've got echoes in my brain with some of the shit Kevin was saying, man.

Right.

You guys.

You know what I'm saying?

Nothing. You guys asked if he should be indicted as well. I mean, do you think if you're an ambassador of a company or of anything like that, that you should be indicted for any crooked dealings they're doing if you are spokesperson?

I mean it, it, it, I mean, I mean again I I respect Kevin O'Leary you know, so I'm not going to comment on that but.

I I would say that there may be much more.

Kind of.

Kind of.

In regards to his involvement with, you know, Sam Bankman, Fried afraid or whatever that we all don't know about because he was kind of defending him on this stage tonight, this morning he was kind of defending the guy.

Kind of.

You know.

I mean.

Nelson, I I think you. I think you'll get sued. I don't know if he'll get indicted. I think it's very difficult.

So.

They dropped out.

Jump in bro. Let's go man.

Right.

Sorry. Sorry, guys. Uh, I was saying, I think, uh, I think he, I think he'll get sued along with a lot of other ambassadors in the space for FTX being indicted or going to jail for that. I I don't see that happening.

Uh, but I did think a lot of his answers were very fishy. He was. He was tiptoeing around. I kind of lost respect for him. I actually liked Mr Wonderful a lot, but to me it was it was very it just seemed like he was trying to get around the questions like you guys have stated. One thing I did pick up outside of just Mr Wonderful is I think we should all be aware of the legislation that they're going to try to pass in the future.

And see what's actually in the legislation, because it actually might hinder.

Uh, the decentralization of finance. And that's something I'm personally, you know, keeping a close eye on.

Well, you know what, I just thought about you. You look at the Ethereum Max scandal, right? You had all sorts of brand ambassadors, Kim Kardashian, right? All those celebrities, and they got sued like, I like whoever was just speaking said they'll, you know, they they they'll probably get a smack on the hand, but I don't think he's going to like do jail time or anything.

Didn't the charges, didn't the charges get dropped on those?

Correct.

You don't think what, David? David, what do you not think?

Yeah.

I was comparing it to etherium Max, right? Etherium Max. Big, big. That was the big, the big start of the, you know, the big rug polls and you know, Kim Kardashian was an ambassador and all those celebrities that nothing happened to them, they got a smack on the hand, so.

That's right, exactly.

They basically wrote the name of Etherium and shield the token.

She was fined $1,000,000. Dude, she was fine. She wasn't even paid $1,000,000 for that.

Yeah, it's, it's still, but that's a drop in the bucket. That's $1,000,000. That's what less than a percent of her net worth didn't didn't mean anything.

But what did what did she get paid, though?

Like 200 grand.

She was a brand ambassador, like Kevin O'Leary is to FTX.

Didn't they end up dropping that case against Kim?

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, they settled.

Yeah, she had to pay a fee. I believe it was like 1.5 million and I think she was paid like 200 grand to to promote it in the first place.

Yeah.

I mean, I I wouldn't say this though, right? You know, some of the answers. Well, not some, a lot of the answers. You know, Mr O'Leary was given on his stage. I wouldn't expect that from somebody who was a brand ambassador to, you know, this fraudulent company led by a bunch of fraudulent individuals, right. Because you got to think about it, a lot of people respect Kevin O'Leary, right, myself included. And I'm pretty sure a lot of people in this room right now. Right. So for Kevin.

Pretty bold.

And and Nelson, Nelson.

Well Larry, to stamp something publicly by how many people write invested in FTX as well as starting using FTX to trade crypto, simply based on Kevin O'Leary stamping it right and think about the fact that.

Jeffrey grant.

Also, he he kept saying show me the money and I'll show you where it went. I'm like, OK, well why not do that before you did this?

Exactly.

Like like you can't do due diligence once the crime has been committed. You do the due diligence before the crime.

OK.

Grant, you didn't, you didn't have an idea. You had probably had no idea his answers were gonna be like that right when you when you interviewed him.

Right. No, no.

No, no, we we we didn't even talk this morning before this interview. I thought he was going to cancel it, frankly.

Crazy.

Way to keep the pressure on grant you were asking. You were really pressure in there trying to get some good answers.

Ohh, I can't wait to hear this.

Oh yeah, 1000% that was that was a good interview for sure. I, I just, man, I I did not expect his answers. I mean, I I mean, I was lost for words, man. I'm here driving to a job site and I'm just listening. I'm like, God damn, is this Mr wonderful?

Yeah.

Jesus Christ. But I mean, let's go to UFC. Let let's circle around everybody on stage real quick. I want to get your thoughts. I want to know what you think about the interview, your takeaways, and quite frankly, your reservations at this point. So somebody jump in, let's go to UFC, UFC, let's talk about it, man. Get it. Get in the conversation.

Yeah. Thanks for bringing me up here, guys. Um and I, I'm gonna play more of the devil's advocate side. Yes, he did sound very scripted, like he wanted to make sure that he sounded very politically correct, but I definitely feel like.

You guys are giving him shit for saying stuff like you did invest in a guy like Sam Beckman freed again. I don't think he said that necessarily. If I if I'm correct, he was saying that he's met multiple invest. He's he's he's saw multiple entrepreneurs and he's invested in entrepreneurs in the past who have had catastrophic mistakes, but he's still willing to invest in them again. So I don't think it was directly related to Sam Beckman freed. I think he was more saying.

Like trying to attest to his character and how he goes about situations more than the the specific situation of Sam SF right now, but yes, he was scripting his answers.

I'm not capping, bro, but I'm just saying, you know?

100%.

UFC, UFC, come on man. You your booty scratcher for Kevin O'Leary right now, bro. That's come on man, you're caping for him right now. My brother. I mean, why else would you? I mean, bro, bro, this, this was an interview with questions directly pertaining to his involvement with SBF. Why else would he mention something like that? I mean that's common sense, my brother.

You got damn right.

But, but we're all giving him shit for specifically SBF. I'm talking specifically in the in the, in the. He's talking in the grand scheme of things. He never specifically answered it in terms of SPF.

That's right.

Exactly.

That's right.

But let's be honest, he's not even invested into SPF to begin with. He's with he has house money that's like going to Vegas and you getting 50 million of play money. Of course they're going to hit and even if you lose, you don't give a damn about anything else. He's basically saying that 50 million is my price to stamp this. I don't care about the aftermath. I don't care about creating a recession in the crypto world. I don't care about the backlash, the regulation. This is what I I stamp becaus

This is my price.

And I haven't done any due diligence when I'm worth so much. Like for me to stamp something you're once you make those fifty million 100 millions you know I'm not even there yet. But sure name and your brand is everything. They're actually who you are and once you taint that you you lose so much respect and so much ground and and sometimes there's no way to get back to that but for it to be this catastrophic like.

It didn't. Max was not on any type of level to where FT X was. This is talking about people that are billion dollar names stamping this. You have Steph Curry you have. I mean all the type of people that have been stamping this and Even so like.

When we talk about Kevin, I don't believe he should be indicted simply for the fact of if Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk or any of them came to me with a product, it is under our understanding of just without NDA, without even going deeper. And I expect that product to work regardless. So in speaking to somebody who's not tech savvy or who's not an engineer of sorts, and then when this crash.

Happened just about a week ago or two weeks ago like I was in a space with SPF and he said he doesn't know how to code. So how do you go for a years of this tech guru of this Elon Musk like figure this Mark Zuckerberg figure these, these large name figures you're being put up with there with the grades, the legends and now you're saying you don't know how to code and now you're saying you don't know the finances behind it the whole.

FTX exchange like you don't understand anything and every single answer, he said. To my knowledge, to my knowledge, to my knowledge, nothing was concrete and it's like what do you know? You can't act oblivious once shit hits the fan, but be this genius in.

Acting as if you're this guru the whole time, that is actual that, that's fraud.

You know what too, there's probably something in that NDA that talks about Kevin O'Leary being absolved and any wrongdoings.

And and I just just to echo that.

For lack of a better word, I get offered deals two or three times a month.

And the more money involved, the more suspect I get.

Exactly. And the more you have to bring a lawyer.

Because I know this thing. If this thing goes, yeah, we we were going to do, we were going to do NFT's June of last year and my whole team wanted to do NFT's. We met with seven groups, we had images. We had our little doodles ready to go, 10X guys and last minute. I'm like, Nah, I don't feel good about this. Let's wait. And I'm glad I did because people would have lost a lot of money. And so when I put my name on something.

Then.

It's even more important a third party.

When I when I bring you guys a real estate deal at Cardone Capital, I've walked the building, looked at the building, looked at management, looked at the leases, looked at the cash flow, already secured debt or not, like I should know everything and I think anybody that puts their name on anything.

Should have some level of responsibility in the aftermath that would make that would either make the deal more expensive or people more cautious.

And in this world of social media that didn't exist, you know, six or seven or eight years ago that maybe this needs to be regulated.

Exactly it. It's a definitely a.

I guess a hard metal ground to find, because for me, I like deregulation, I like the separation from the government entities. That's because I'm a crypto guy. I make these contracts, I build these one second.

Think you got a call.

Nelson, you want to pick it up?

Hey I'm I'm gonna jump in real quick. So I I think grant nails it, you know reputation and credibility. So you know he's got a lot of sponsors and and a lot of.

Go ahead, guys, who wants to speak next?

Can I go next? Grant, can you hear me?

He's speaking great.

Grant came here.

Sorry about that. I I I was on a business run.

Let's let's get one mic on storm. Storm. Go ahead, brother, I can hear you.

Hey, I appreciate it, Nelson. Yeah, I think Grant nailed it. You know, credibility and reputation is important.

Go ahead, VTVT or Joshua, you got your hands up.

Great. Can you hear him?

So Grant, I think there's a bug sometimes with spaces where you're not able to hear certain audience members. So I don't think Grant can hear Storm right now.

Ohh, Grant can't hear storm right now.

No.

Yeah, there's there's a bug sometimes with spaces where a storm if you rejoin, Grant might be able to hear you and he can bring him up on the panel.

Greg, can you hear me?

I can pick up if if that's cool until.

He cannot hear.

I don't know what's going on with spaces, man.

Go ahead. I don't even see storm.

They need to, they need to fix this right now. This is crazy.

Right.

Can you hear me?

I mean, that's why Elon's hiring a bunch of software developers to spaces is a great network, interconnected network, but the actual product needs a lot of work. Hopefully it gets a lot better going forward.

Yeah, definitely.

This is what happens when you fire your whole God damn crew.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Alright, let's go to let's go to Vt.

Those Tesla engineers got to get up to speed.

Let's go to Vt real quick. Vt Go ahead man.

Hey, how's it going everyone? Uh, thanks for letting me speak again. Um, so I think you know.

Bro, is that is that a board ape? Is that a board ape in your profile picture?

Ohh hell no. I wouldn't spend that much on a NFT. That's just a I think it's I don't know what it is. I just wanted to try out the the Twitter wallet so I got a few, you know, NFT's that I could get real cheap.

Just for testing I guess. But anyway, you know with this SBF and you know Kevin O'Leary, no, it's just like.

You know, it doesn't surprise me that this happened. Like it happens. Like, you know, in the in the loan world, you know what I'm saying? And and when these things happen, you know, they happen for a lot of money and everybody, you know, there's a whole group of people that have got to, you know, stand around and play stupid, you know, for these things to happen. So.

You know what I mean? So if, if Ohh Leary, I mean did he know, you know, that this was probably some type of a scam, you know, long before you know, this crash happened and then he's like, oh, you know, let me sign this deal for $15 million in, you know what I'm saying? Like like that's a lot of money. I mean it. I mean maybe not to a billionaire, but you know, to average family that makes you know 50,000 a year, medium income.

Yeah, but.

Did he get paid dollars or did he get paid STT?

Which is you know 90% of this country, you know, that's a that's a substantial amount of money. So you know along with that probably comes you know, non disclosure, non compete deals and all kinds of legal ramifications. Now were those deals made with FTX or were they made, you know, specifically, you know between you know Sam and O'Leary, you know they're probably deals.

That are you know with FTX and I'm sure that he he will get investigated and and the truth will you know come out and you know as as an American I believe in you know innocent until proven guilty. But I mean obviously there's a lot of evidence that some crime you know has taken place the extraditions are are are going on and you know I haven't really seen all of the evidence I heard Mr O'Leary.

If you don't, if you don't look excuse me, but.

You know, say something about, I don't remember if it was in the interview or a different program, but he said that, you know, they haven't been able to see the books of FDX to see what actually happened to his money. So he doesn't, you know what I mean? Like they don't have, you know, the data to see or the OR the access to see kind of the internal books of.

Yeah, if you don't look for the book, if you don't look at the books before the deal, why should you expect to see the books during or after the deal?

That's a. That's a fat GC.

100% bro.

Grant Grant, you asked him, you know, how you know, would you recommend people come into my office they want to invest with Grant Cardone and Cardone Capital. And he said you went on to say of course I would show him the books. I would show him your 10 year financial history this that the third. But then he went on to say that, you know, he clearly didn't do that himself and but he wants to see it now. So to me it's it to me. He got pulled in by greed, $15 million.

Let me ask you if would any of you turn down $15 million?

If I knew it was.

No.

Even if people say no, they're probably lying.

Right, I know.

But did he really get paid and in dollars or did he get paid in FT Ohh sorry.

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I mean, guys, guys, 111 second, one second. Real quick. Once, one second. Mainly one, one second, right. I mean, listen, right, not a lot of people in this room are of the financial stature as Kevin O'Leary, right? I mean, dude, a lot of people respect this guy. A lot of people follow this guy. He's very influential. I mean, an individual like that, you know, taking $15 million to be a brand ambassador of a company that relies on the average.

Individual depositing money with them, I mean that that that is.

This thing's buggy today, huh?

C can can you guys hear me on stage right now?

Yes.

Yeah, we can hear you.

We can hear you.

I can hear you, um, Nelson. I just had audio problems too, so I had to drop down and come back up.

I think I think Grant might be having audio problems.

Grant, Grant, Grant, Grant, I think you're having audio issues.

Yeah, but he can't leave.

Yeah, Grant, if you leave the room shuts down. Tell.

He just text me. He just texted me Nelson and asked if people are talking, so he's definitely having some issues.

Yeah, yeah.

Can can grant give somebody else the host drop off and come back?

No, he can't.

No. If Grant leaves, we all leave.

OK.

This is his metaverse right now.

Yeah, that's why they need to change this. They need to change it to multiple hosts.

Yeah.

I agree. Can you hear me, Grant?

Yeah, I can hear you.

No, I think you can. You can click on somebody and choose that to be a colonist.

Can you guys hear me now?

Yeah I I that's what I did is I just had to drop down and come back up in my audio's fixed it. Now that OK Nelson's back up. Nelson. Nelson say something.

Yes.

Yes, yes, we can hear you.

Perfect.

OK man, it's Twitter space. It's Jesus. Lord Man, why didn't Elon think of this before he fired every God damn body?

They'll get it, they'll get it handled, but they're starting to get more and more traffic.

Yeah.

I mean Nelson, to be fair to Elon, Twitter spaces was this clunky before he came on and the reason he cut cut half the staff is so he can make it a more software developer based company and they can actually build up the UI and make it a more robust product.

And then also keep in mind, I remember his interview the other day, um, where people are, you know, because everybody just keeps mentioning, hey Elon, when can we do this? And he said something which actually made sense. He said, guys, I've only been on the job for a month, so hey, he's done pretty damn good so far, but there's definitely some bugs and that the developers are going to have to fix soon.

Let me ask you guys a question on stage real quick, right? Um, Sam bagman freed, right? Do you think this guy gets at least ten years in jail?

Yeah.

I think he could.

No.

Based on the crimes, he should.

He she.

David Jumping, you said no.

Who said no?

Jump in.

I said no, I I think he's paid. I think he prepaid. I mean, everybody wanted to see the, you know, and forget his media tour. We wanted to see what was going on today in DC, you know, like even even just seeing Kevin O'leary's responses, they're acting as if.

They're gonna get away with it. Honestly. That's what it looks like to me. And obviously if the, you know, the, the, the democratic parties second highest donor, don't you think they're going to protect him?

Yeah, yeah. And David, you're wrong though. You're wrong. Like those people already got their money.

There, there there's no reason.

We're gonna protect him going forward, going in there.

You don't think so?

No. Why? Why would they protect him? There he got their money. Dude. What? What does Jay-Z say? Hey, when the money goes to pigeons, take the fight. The Dems will run.

Maybe he can, maybe he can may. I mean, he's probably got a lot of info that you know that he can. He's got, he's probably got a lot of dirt on people.

Nah, I doubt it.

Handshakes, you know, deals that they've done on in the background.

Yeah, he, he, he ain't got any dirt on these people. And if he does, he'll go to prison and then they'll kill him in the first week, so.

Uh.

That's hard, yes.

Yeah. And you're talking about people that are connected to the Federal Reserve?

Don't get me wrong, I hope he goes to prison, but I just don't think it's gonna happen. I don't think so.

Alright, bet.

Yeah, I I'll. I'll bet he gets at least 10 years. I'll bet you $1000 you get he gets at least 10 years.

I'm not Nelson. I might actually win a bet against Grant.

Miss fuck off.

Alright, that's a bet GC.

Yeah, David.

10 years.

What I what I would add here? This is ace by the way, from what I heard in my perspective too.

Go ahead, sorry.

Rock real quick ace. Real quick ace before you jump in guys. For you and for you guys in the audience, I really want to know your take on this right this SPF get more than 10 years or less than 10 years due to this. Hit that chat feature at the bottom right corner and type it in there. Quote This quote quote the tweets in this space and type it in here. SBF gets 10 years or more. SBF gets 10 years or less. Put it in that chat feature right now. Bottom right corner jump in Ace, let's talk about i

Yeah, so I I actually do think that he's expendable because if if one they already got their money out and the parties are are already resolved too, he's already kind of semi incriminated himself a few times. I've seen a bunch of different interviews already of him, one with a guy named Coffee Zilla and one I saw the other day which was absolutely insane. He was on CNBC and he was being interviewed and they asked him a question about why he did not have a CFO and a board.

For, you know, a multi billion dollar platform and you know they asked it in a bunch of different ways. At first they asked him why he didn't and he admitted that he didn't have any. And then later when they asked him a different way, he actually incriminated himself in some ways and he said, he said in some ways we actually had too many boards. And then immediately after he said that they cut him from the air.

And so it was kind of, you know, I mean that that alone is very fishy. They have evidence of that that I'm sure they'll probably use in court because your stories are changing, right. That's probably another reason why Kevin wanted to make sure his story straight because at this point you might be incriminating yourself. I mean that's another thing which I could understand from a learning standpoint. But I I do think that based on a lot of the interviews he's done, a lot of things that he's alre

He's expendable. I don't. I don't think that he necessarily maybe let go with, uh, no penalty behind it. I I could see him doing some time in prison.

Hopefully not more than 10 years. No, I'm just kidding. He needs to do more. I'll be glad to pay Grant that 1000 bucks.

Yeah, I think he's playing stupid right now.

Well, maybe, maybe I'm in good shape then because.

Bro, I guarantee, I guarantee, I guarantee that boy goes down. I guarantee that boy goes down for a long ass time. And guess what David, if he does know something they'll take him out like Epstein. How about that. If, if they can bro. If they could take. If they could take Epstein out. How much more does this, this, this nerdy looking fucking crypto guy. I mean come on bro, they'll take him out so easy. Think about it. And.

And.

I would love that, but since you're on the same side of grant, you never win a battle bet to grant. I means I'm going to win. So thanks. Thanks, Nelson.

No, great, great, great, great, great. Wins all the bets. So I think I'm on the right side this time. Yeah, it's, it's whenever I'm against him, I lose. So I think I'm on the right side.

But, but bro, you know the the premise that he was the second largest Democratic donor and you know, essentially saying that the Dems are going to want to keep him safe simply because of that. I mean, dude, if there was still money in the bank, maybe.

Dude, ain't no money in that God damn well man. No water in that God damn well you understand what I'm saying.

What about Alameda? What about Alameda?

I don't know.

Bro, bro, that boy ain't got no God damn money left. I mean, why? Why protect him?

Well.

Why they gonna protect him?

Here's the thing that's that's the money. That's on paper.

I mean, bro, you got, you got it empty. You gotta empty as well that you've already drained from. Why protect it?

But is it though? Is it though?

I 100%.

Yeah.

Thank you.

But Nelson, you have to understand, this is this is the money that's documented on paper. This is not crypto. Like when when you're dealing, First off, when you're dealing with somebody who's supposedly a genius, they know how to watch that money and they know how to do it in ways like the only thing that.

Ding, Ding, Ding.

Most people understand or most people see is what's pulled out of the bank. They don't see those gains until you put it back into the bank. But if you keep it separated, crypto is decentralized for a reason. That's why they're without the regulation. That's the the largest reason that governments wanted regulated, so that they can get that tax and that money backwards. Anytime that they see people making large amounts of money, they want to tax it. And when you pull out, say.

If I pull 10,000 out of the bank right now, the government knows about it if I put it into crypto.

And make 10 million, a 100 million, they no longer know any of that gains or any of those gains until I put it back into that same bank account. And that's me doing my own due diligence of allowing the government to know about it.

Yeah.

I would say for the most part, but they could use chain analytics if they're trying to actually identify your wallet and there's enough money moving black black engineer. I agree with you though, there's probably so much that isn't accounted for. He is charged with wire fraud, securities fraud, and money laundering, a bunch of other charges. So if you look at it objectively, he should go to prison for a long time. But because this industry is still so unregulated and there's still so many nuance

To people makes them out to be this kind of soft nerd that didn't know what he was doing. And you know, he's really sorry and he wants to do good by the people. And I think, I mean, I'm not sure if that's going to sway people making decisions in a court of law, but I think that is going to be at least to his benefit to a certain degree. So while I think objectively he would go to prison for a long time, I'm in the minority camp of of believing that he might actually walk away with a relative.

No, I'm. I'm hey.

Slap on the wrist and go to prison for less than 10. I'm I'm not saying, I'm not saying this is what I want, Nelson.

Well, I'm, I'm with whale. I'm a whale coin man.

I'm.

Listen, listen, Nelson, I'm not saying this is what I want.

Ohh, man. Come on, man. Well, well, well, well, well, well. You gotta, you well, you gotta. One second, Dave. Dave. Well, well, well, well. You got to miss me with that bullshit, man. Come on, man. That's some goddamn bullshit, bro. What are you talking about? Black, black engineer. You hear the shit coming out of his mouth, man. Come on, man.

I agree.

Not completely. I mean after studying SBF and seeing him in his interviews, I think that is completely a that that's a decoy. I don't think that is truly who he is. I think he's kind of, you know, narcissistic in his ways and even in the way that as FTX is built, what they were doing is they were pulling collateral from that cash and issuing almost like dummy tokens. So people were trading these, but they were just, they, they had that cash as collateral.

Yeah, man, Nelson, the well is not dry by any means.

But weren't necessarily issuing like official Bitcoin. And that's when when diving deeper into that, like I was sitting in a Twitter space is about a week or two ago with SBF and he himself, you could tell he didn't want to answer anything. Like every single time he was saying to my knowledge, to my knowledge, to my knowledge. But when they were really critiquing him and diving deep and asking him actual questions, he always tried to, you know, divert away from it. But there were certain times.

What he was saying, yes, that is most likely that is the case, most likely that is the case. But there's way more that he knows than he is letting it out to be right now, 100%.