Yeah, yeah, I'm Chris. I've run run a business called Brain London merrily doing sort of like films and stills for marketing, tising. Did some nice bits and pieces with Red Bull last year and some work with National Lottery on on the environmental issues. But recently I keep getting a lot of requests from asking about Metaverse and.
Can we build them a metaverse or you know what what's out there? And so I've, I've been doing a lot of research for the last six months and and Chris introduced me to Jodie today. And so I've got, I've got some meetings lined up where I'm speaking to.
In building something metaverse, but I don't know how you guys find it, but I feel like there's there's a lot of misconception and the universe at the moment. You know, a lot of people think it's the matrix or ready player one, and when you show them the realities of it, it's, you know, a bit blown. After all, Lego.
And obviously there's a problem with the delivery because it's the the bandwidth just isn't there. So, Jodie, what were you showing me today? I think you send me some links to a platform that's a little bit more realistic.
What we did with the V Centre the the beauty about the vcenter is, is actually on web two you anyone can go to, you don't have to attach your wallet, you don't have to to build an avatar or something and the the idea of the centre on a 360 tour.
And that's sort of like bridging the gap between real life and the metaverse which which is not there yet. So the spatial is the nearest to the metaverse. So the way we were trying to do is to onboard people to the V Centre through web two, sort of like a website. Then once they they like it, they go around and they they feel that.
Yeah I'm finding you know there's there's a lot of interest and a lot of I think a lot of obviously London's got a bit of a a name for design and and you know things looking cool so I guess you know that's that's the reason that people want want designers from London to start looking at this.
Kind of is developing as we we speak. So it's it's always developing. So every one is gonna try to be their own metaverse and we are all gonna be under one metaverse if that makes sense for you to you. That's how I see it.
Ohh, sort of, you know, precursors to the metaverse. And we're still not really there. Are we know? Yeah. I think most of you know, my, my, my son and his friends were thoroughly in the metaverse with fortnight and Minecraft and Roblox. You know, it's, it's affected them. I think. You know, it's.
It's just this this issue of quality I think you know and as you say you know it's going to take a little bit. I'm just wondering whether you know because because Google Stadia could deliver free rendered photo realistic.
Yeah, I've heard of it. I've heard of the Google Stadium before. You know, it's all a matter of implementation software, working with hardware. I mean, the the Playstation's got some VR stuff. What was the question?
I guess I guess the what the question was why is there such a block at this point if you're if you're doing because a lot of my clients they worry experiences so, so you know we we do like build many experiences. So it's whether any of you guys have seen the BMW Metaverse experience job here.
It it's not much is it let let's face it, it's it's not mind blowing. But at the moment when you consider that everything is HTML on the web and everything's sort of like very flat, very 2D and we've lost that experience that you used to get with flash. When when you look at a a perfume website or something like that it would blow and the interactivity with the animation was just really pleasing. It's just that the subtle pleasure you got from from an experience and what.
But I'm finding the moment most of the clients want to do some sort of metaverse in inverted commas experience and absolutely you know set on like it's going to be in Decentraland or it's going to be in in roadblocks or whatever. You know, they're quite happy to build an isolated experience that you visit like a website and this is what I suppose miss you're saying you touch you just touch in but what what I'm thinking is why couldn't we get build something.
The well the the the platform to deliver it on for the for for one and two whenever you get people involved who are talking about making money they the creativity goes more by the wayside. And the lowest common lowest common denominator comes in where you know I have to this has to work on everything so you know that that usually is the problem. And when just when it comes to flash and stuff and I know what you're saying, but from the time it was Macromedia all the way through to the time it was
It was a security nightmare and installation nightmare and update nightmare. Half the stuff that people were developing in Flash didn't work properly. So Flash had its good side and it had. And if you were a good developer with flash you could do a lot with it. But implementing it even you know that was one of the reasons Flash failed was because it's it's entire system of of installing it, updating its security or vulnerabilities. Everything else made it something people didn't want to do and m
I think that it's worth having a look at BMW jewtopia because I mean it got, it got absolutely slated. I mean the press didn't like him. Joy Topia, it's their mini metaverse. Yeah, through through. But you know, it just goes to the point of of I think.
That people like to PR this stuff. You know it's you know you've been smashing the PR from day one on on Gucci vault and and what have you you know you got JP Morgan's Onyx Lounge they they keep you know they keep. Yeah. You know Wall Street Journal busy talking about that all the time and I think it's interesting that.
Well, yeah, I mean, that's, you know, that that's what a metaverse is, right? A metaverse is a 3D environment that you go and enter into and interact with other people and things. So we've had metal verses for a very long time and Neil Neil Stevenson coined the term in 92. So none of this is new. It's just we're getting to a point of when Steven Spielberg, elites mouthpiece went and and launched Ready Player one in 2018, he put out the road map and the road map doesn't change. I still stand by i
Ohh, no problem. I mean, if you have anymore questions, I'd be glad to answer if I can. I'm just, I'm. I'm a futurist and a realist, so sometimes I sound pessimistic and I'm not. I'm very optimistic about things, but I like to be very, very brutally real with what I'm dealing with.
You know you can't go in with your friends. You know you you will be in there and they'll all be on Twitch or they'll be on, you know, on on Facebook, you know, face to whatever, talking, talking about the event. But they're not together in the event if you see what they.
Well, it can. I mean it, I mean it, it can only, it can only deliver what's possible now, which is 100 to 150 users per Shard. So in an environment like Fortnite where they had where they had marshmallow, the marshmallow concert, and there were 10 million fortnight users watching the concert, it was shared into about 100 per per Shard and you couldn't see anything outside of that Shard. That was the people you were with. So what I'm saying is, is like the the the core structures of the Internet
Right and and that's really that's really not that's not so much a factor or connected to the graphical display quality and all that that's that's more of an adaptive level of detail and and designing for the lowest common denominator saying you know that the the geeks at spatial I guarantee are sitting there on thirty 90s and forty 90s and kicking ass and having fun and they're like let's do this and they're like no no it has to work on that Android phone over there and they're like ohh I mean
By the way, Chris Moore is into into filmmaking and he's been doing it for over 30 years and he's worked with so many things and he hasn't introduced himself. Would you like to introduce yourself before you go more?
In cities and cities all across the UK and you walk around with your phone, easy access, you've got access points and you see VR on your phone with all the information. If you got headphones on it gives you information. We've just done 1A Ghost Trail. That was done over Halloween where you walk in the most haunted city in the UK.
Bought new by neural or yeah that's and the experience is fantastic and the nice thing about it is that you can get the headsets put in libraries and you get people to. So it is a real sort of interaction of the VR XR giving people access to it. Because like Chris is saying one of the things is that lots of people just want to do it and then they realise that the.
Experience and that's one of the biggest problems I find with it with with with the Metaverse and and what have you. And if we go back historically to how TV launched and how the experience of film and it was always a social experience, you know when was when, when I remember the stories when we were growing up well, you know we knew who had the colour TV and when there was a special event, everybody gathered in that house to watch the.
The if and whether it's a film or you know that that that special wedding or that special cricket match or football match or rugby match or you know we used to know who had that colour TV and we used to go there and used to be a social event. So that social element is is still key. Even if it is just you and another person or two people going to a cinema movie in a theatre, that's still a social event, you.
You like to be around people and experience it and when you hear the theatre go dead silent or everybody goes, oh, you can feel that with everybody else's. It's a different experience than experience of and and headsets on your own somewhere where you're sort of in not experience it with others. And so anyway I am rambling on it is Sunday night and.
Yeah. And just not into him, never have been, never been into it. It's like I entertainment. To me, it's kind of like the thing with the whole I'm going to create a piece of fine art and then I'm going to blast it with audio, you know? It's like it doesn't necessarily go together, you know?
Queensrÿche operation Mind crime, other ones that are like a whole story on below a meatloaf bat out of hell about it held two where he kind of tells a story musically all through the thing. But the music is the core component. Each song stands on its own and each song is powerful, whatever. Together they make a story. I like that. But if you take a visual thing like a movie Oregon TV show and start throwing random songs and do it where everybody just starts randomly singing and dancing, I want
Yeah, you know, they, they were deep in with fdx helium got helium was going over to the Solana chain. I don't know if you guys know about what helium is, but a helium is a IoT network that you buy miners and you hook them up in their radio frequency and they track IoT tags and they were transferring over to the salon chain and they had gotten like $200 million worth of funding from Ftx to do it. So, you know, it's like I've been saying for a year and a half, it's like.
All these people in this space saw what the big boys did in the stock market and exchange traded funds and all this other stuff and said, well, we can do that with fake money. And they did. And so they started up coins and they started up exchanges and different stuff and then they started trading between each other.
Coins that, you know, without them wouldn't have the value. So they were propping up each other's value, just like people in the markets do, and other things. They were playing the same games. I mean, God, if it was like a, you know, if I had no other defence and I was caught and put in gaol and I was SBF and I went in front of the judge, I'd be like I was just doing what my elders did. I wasn't doing it smarter, you know? I mean everything in this space is tied together. So Solana.
They're predicting it could go down as low as eight, you know, and I mean, the issues they've had with spam orders and all kinds of stuff because their fees are really low and they're set with spam and, you know, NFT and all kinds of different stuff, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why people are investing in these networks to begin with. I really don't.
It's a deep wound and it's it's gonna it's gonna reverberate too because you know that the stock market and currency markets and governments and other things we're dipping into crypto too. So everybody's taking a whack on the on the knuckles everybody. And it's going to keep going. It's going to you're going to feel the effects of this ripple throughout the economy. When you see a $2 trillion suck of the of of money out of the system. That's not good.
And blow it apart and then come walking in with the solutions, whether they're cbdcs or Visa, MasterCard coming out with their own Cryptowall and all of a sudden, boom, they've got an FTI mean, you know, and and all of a sudden everybody, you know, like from Warner to Nickelodeon to whoever's in that market, you know, I mean, one of the things I think that a lot of the big boys are waiting to do, you know, like for example, let's take video games. They say a lot of people are out there going, al
I mean, it is so easy for them to integrate something like that, and they're already doing it in a lot of gaming economies where they have their own economy anyway. So they're they're basically a blockchain because what they're doing, they're running on distributed servers all over the place, whether it's a WS or their own or whatever. And they're, you know, running that that, that way they've got an economy that's somewhat tokenised in a way that there's that value, like World of Warcraft, othe
This is just a foregone conclusion that what they're waiting for is the big boys to step in and go. Here's a real solution, everybody, everybody can trust this one. And you won't get NFT to your wallet that have smart contracts that you suck all your stuff out. And yeah, that's what everybody's waiting for. Who's in the game? Who understands? Who knows? When that happens, everybody will abandon all this stuff and maybe that some of the blockchains will go away just because. And then, you know, w
Keep the blockchain alive. Maybe in whatever way they'll pay for the hosting or whatever, however the blockchain runs to keep the NFT S going, you know, because without the existence, let's say if you buy an ft on Solana.
And the sauna goes poof and just goes away and somebody stops supporting the database, or it gets shredded somehow or something. There's no proof of purchase of of anything. There's no evidence that a transaction ever happened. So you don't own nothing legally, do you?
No, I don't think you do. You know, that's it. You know, if you, if your blockchain's not there, you have no, no proof of ownership or or copyright or trademark or whatever. You know, it's it's gone, hasn't it?
I know that there's all the big companies are working on different parts of different technology to integrate. Like I guarantee you Apple's talking to Visa, MasterCard about doing blockchain inside their wallets and all this other stuff, and maybe that's going to happen at the same time they launched the VR. I mean, imagine one thing now Scoble and I very we we differ a little bit on where we come in on what Apple's going to release. He says that the first version of it's going to be over eye ov
All kinds of stuff. And, and he's probably right because what I've envisioned being the Holy Grail and so does he, I think is probably second or maybe even third Gen which is the ray bans for a RXR you know, just amazing stuff. But even if Apple does it really right with the with the VR headset, they put in the ecosystem, they've got you know, VR building tools, you can stay in it for longer than an hour without wanting to throw up. You know they sell 100 million units in the first year. You kno
That that when they launched that, it ain't gonna just be the VR headset, it's going to be a bunch of stuff around it. That's what you need to kick start 100 million sales and then 500 million sales and then a billion sales. And that's how you grow in three years to become something that completely paradigm shifts the entire ecosystem. That's what we're waiting for.
To change a system, to change the system, you can't change a whole system in one night to change and we changing an era so to like our we entering a new era called web 3 called, you know, call it whatever you call it, metaverse.
So of course first is gonna have loads of people against it. Second is gonna have loads of failures. Loads of people will take take it for granted and and and scam do loads of scams and everything. It's sort of like part of the process and all these games, it's look at the, look at the, the, the, the.
You know, but The thing is, with all of this tech and everything else that's going on, you have to know where you are at the moment in time where you are. So right now we're in Dev mode, but we're in serious hardcore dev mode. We're in the dev mode. We were back in like 19967892 thousand and 3D in graphics card technology and other stuff like that. We're in this very, very serious high end kick start curve that we're going to go on because there's going to be some stuff that drops. But the Oculu
Anything Google comes out with, those are all going to be incremental steps. They're going to be mostly sold to developers. Some, you know, interested, looky loos some curious. I mean, you know, look at, look at the quest, it's like 15 million units sold and I can guarantee at least 2/3 of those were sold to debts, you know, I mean it's just people working on in VR doing different stuff, working to try and move the technology forward, but everybody is just waiting.
Well, and everybody, everybody's just waiting. Everybody's just waiting for the for the killer app. And the killer app is the hardware software combo that is effortless, that doesn't require, you know, a lot of weight on your head, that doesn't make you seasick, that gives you much, you know, real serious controls without having to, you know, maybe even hands free.
I mean, think about like the LIDAR that that comes in every iPhone. Now lidar's cheap. Now you can install 2 LIDAR scanners on the front of a pair of VR goggles no problem, and have hands free controls. You know what Apple is going to come out with next? I guarantee you will change the game.
I think you I think you're right I think Apple, Apple, Apple, Apple changed the landscape with the iPhone. If you think about it you know sort of like I know you know obviously we've had this massive acceleration in in.
Development of the pandemic but really I think 2008 2009 with the iPhone and and that yeah like you say the killer app once you get an app that works and people can just press the button it was almost like bringing computing to you know to a Fisher price level what Apple did and and also I think you've seen other products they've they've brought through like the the the watch. Yeah initially there's you think do I need to watch 400 pounds or dollars or whatever.
And then and then you know somebody gets you one for a birthday or you know you get experience of it and and then it becomes second nature. So I think you're right stream when the glasses come through they'll come with an app they'll come with your your you know your wallet and everything will be one one touch and and it'll just go click into place and and that they could quite easily seal the deal.
Well that's like for me it's it's so funny. Everybody's sitting here talking about static round PFP S and Twitter and shit and I'm thinking about well what if you know, everything is 3D avatars in in the AR and XR verse or whatever where you can just tap to buy ohh, look at that and spin it around. I mean there's so much opportunity out there for content creators and creatives coming up, but they have to know a lot of pipelines, they have to know a lot of tech and art and it's it's something tha
Yeah, I think you're right. I think you know I I think you've got, you've got a lot of you've got a lot of inquisitive sort of people in 3D, you know like Jodie and you know that that have had experience for years work, working in, in, in.
And you know when you've been in in the in that had the experience of having to change your behaviour update your, your, your, the packages you use, update the, the actual languages you script languages then I think you know you kind of accept. You've just got to sort of move on otherwise you're going to you know you're going to get left behind you have to do it.
So I think, I think there will be a lot of people that they'll be quite comfortable getting into that, that process of building. And I think if somebody, somebody like Apple gets involved, they'll make it so easy to build, it'll be drag and drop. And if you look Unreal Engine at the moment, I mean it's, you know, going from something like cinema 4D to Unreal Engine, yeah, it's a bit of a, you know, you've got to engage your brain again, of course, but once you have the, the, the.
The pay off is huge because you're production time just drops to the floor. You know, compared to where you would be, you know, working in 4D or 3D Studio Max, there's no comparison and and actually the result of it is way better as well. The lighting, everything that render just looks, looks really good I think the matrix.
It's done and it's done in real time and unreal. And I I just, I would keep on saying I can imagine the artists or animators just sitting there with like Xbox controllers fighting robots in real time on the screen and just recording it. And that being in the show, I mean this is like we're going into different territory here when it comes to content creation. I'm, I'm working on like pipelines and how you build it and from a IR to 3D to delivery to the point where when you connect with the site
It's it's kind of like H264, isn't it? You know, it's like as soon as Steve Jobs said, right, that's it. I'm done with Flash, I think. I don't like Adobe anyway, so I'm just gonna say, right, we're not, we're not doing flash or anything on, on, on, on the phone platform.
That's true. I forgot about that. Job's pretty much killed Flash. I forgot about that. He did, he said. I hate flash. I'm not supporting it anymore. And I was about at the end of it. Yeah, you're right.
Exactly this, this, this is a good opportunity to give him a kicking. And he did. And he, he basically shut down flash overnight because everyone wanted the phone. And it's like, right, we're just this is an H264 territory now.
Yeah, I knew people. I knew people who were involved at one time with them with Apple and Adobe, Adobe and they they. There was one point at Adobe was threatening, literally threatening jobs to drop Max support, like entirely. And that would have killed the Mac.
Yeah, yeah. Well I think that's why he went for some things like Final Cut Pro and Ohh you bought not Maya, but one of the other packages that bolted onto my I can't remember which one it was. Now shake, that was it. So yeah, you know, he went nuts buying packages and I think he was kind of nervous that might happen. They might follow through with that threat.
The the real time rendering component of being able to do this and render in real time through game engines like this totally changes your paradigm from a content creation standpoint. If you're not a game developer, primarily it changes your paradigm in the in the sense that you you think totally differently about what you're building now because you're talking about really building it like movie sets and walking through it and and all those stuff. And and that translates so much more easily int
And it's all moving so fast. Even the the Meta verses that are live at the moment like it's spatial. They're doing updates all the time and introducing new things. I heard a rumour that they're bringing in lighting soon and that would be good.
And, and you know what's what's pushing this primarily, I guarantee you it's pushing this primarily is lowest common denominator. Make it look the frigging best you can, run the fastest you can on the crappiest of Android phones. And if you can do that, you know it, that's that's what they want. I mean, that's what the money guys want. They don't care about, you know, well, I wanted to look nice or anything else like that. They're like, will it serve 3 billion people that are working on cell pho
Well, think about it like this. I mean, you know, our phones and everything are super powerful. It's amazing how how much more powerful they are than computers 20 years ago. But you know, if we all, if we all had the equivalent of a high end desktop with a 4090 or whatever in our phones that we could hook up to a VR headset right now that was light and you know, just put on your face and you can wear it for 10 hours. And if you could do that, that's a game changer, you know, that is a game chang
You know and so the lowest common denominator will then move up a step. So it might you know be it might be the iPhone excess Max will be the lowest common denominator in two years. You know it's always really old tech of course but everything floats upward, right. So I think that's you know something to consider too is that you know we're definitely we're pushing the stuff hard and we're pushing it fast but as the hardware improves we're going to see dramatic improvements just because.
And some people will fall off the band, the bandwagon, too. They'll fall. I thought the low end they'll not be able to do stuff and that there's just, you know, it's like the upgrade paths and different things you have for your phones and your Macs and your PC's and stuff. You can't upgrade beyond a certain point if you don't have certain hardware. They just say, I'm sorry, you're ancient.
I guess that's what pushes people to upgrade as well though and and you know that that's the point though isn't it stream you know if you're if you're desperate to to to get in and and you'll feel that like you're missing out and that that that phone mode kicks in then you'll upgrade your hardware as well you know and I think that we all get caught up in that you know especially with the apple maybe not so much anymore but you know.
Yeah, when they, when they changed their, their, their chips, when they went from 9 to ex, you know, and it's like that application's not going to run anymore. You know, they do a pretty good job with Rosetta. But you know, at the end of the day, you think, yeah, it's time for me to get on silicon and you just go, don't you?
I'm going to have to have a major live funeral party for for Hackintosh when it dies because I'm very sad about it. I've been hacking touching ever since the first version of OS Ten was hacked or boot loaded, and I love building hackintoshes and now it's going to be like probably three more years. I give it at the most before they drop Intel support entirely.
I'm just, well, I'm. What I'm interested in is that their their processors are very proprietary in their design and their nature as far as the memory pass and all the cores being on there and the graphics cores being right next to the CPU and all this other stuff. However, that said, they're still just arm processors.
No, I don't see any reason why you couldn't build like a multi arm you know processor clone or something and run Mac OS on it. You know that the silicon version or whatever Apple silicon version eventually you know I think somebody might do that down the road but maybe not. You know those chips are very, very proprietary and very good. I mean I would love to see Apple play. They could you know what those one chips cost them now like 30 bucks each to produce.
Exactly. But you know again Apple has its they got they got their chops man. Their video, audio, colour compression all the way system usage across the board. The facts are that it's Unix. It's clean. It's solid. It's virus free. I don't have to. And people those viruses. Yeah right whatever. You know there's just it's it's a great environment it's it's the closest you can get to Linux without running Linux and I love it way way way way way more than we.
Yeah, I can't wait for the Apple headset because it's gonna be really easy to use at the moment. If you want to type in a link, it's you have to look at your phone and you have to look at the in the headset. It's a bit crazy, so that would be cool and I bet they'll build Syrian as well.
Well, and that's that's the kind of the UX though, Jodie that tells that shows me that Ameta will never be the winner. And stuff like this because they're the ones that make me put on the headset and then say type in this code in your computer, on your computer and you have to take the headset off. If you're alone, you have to take the headset off and then kind of remember the code. And if you forget the code, you have to put the headset on, it turns back on and then it and it does another code,
Well, at this, well, we're not early at all. We've been doing this for 27 years, you know. But, but The thing is, is that the, the 2nd wave of this is early and everybody thinks it's coming tomorrow and it's not coming tomorrow. And everybody's been thinking it's coming tomorrow for the last two years I've been in this space.
This is something I'm predicting. This is something that the elite have told us is coming through predictive programming and through their mouthpieces, and Steven Spielberg is a major mouthpiece of the elite. When he reissued Ready Player 1, the money pipes turned on and billions started to flow into this space. Billions and other people already working on it, of course.
Guys, I'm, I'm gonna have to go. I've, I've got an early school run in the morning, so thank you. Yeah, really great. Great to talk to you. Very interesting and thank you for your your advice and your suggestions.
Every night and we we have a topic but don't always talk about it. We talk about everything and anything. It's kind of open mic, so very chilled space, so you're more than welcome anytime and good luck tomorrow.
Ohh I was gonna say damn feature I didn't know about. Actually it did. It did pop up and say asked me if I wanted to tune my Airpods for spatial audio and I just ignored it cause I only put one in at a time so I probably shouldn't tune them.
Well, I will tell you one thing that I was totally excited about and I'm going to edit it into the video I'm doing because I've started out by saying that I was really mad that the Apple Ultra watch wouldn't fit the original band, the 45 millimetre bands, and it does. So I got the Juke, my really cool metal Juke watch band on here on my new Apple Ultra and it's great. I love, I love how much 4 millimetres makes a big difference just in being able to touch and it's the always on is nice.
I cranked everything up on the camera to 48 mega pixel Prores HR suck, all my gigabytes setting and I haven't tested it yet, but I've taken photos with the 13 promax and the 14 Pro Max, both the top settings, and I'm going to post them up for comparison and stuff like that. It's, you know, it's a little.
And, uh, you know, like I said, it's faster, but I haven't really done a heck of a lot to it that would test its speed or anything at this point. But incremental, you know? It's nice. My daughter's all happy that she's got her 13 pro mags now, so.
The whole point and it was a freaking nightmare. Yeah, it was a nightmare to get it done because I want. I had long story when I was on the phone, 2 hours with AT&T made sure they were pegging the number to the right phone. They didn't. I had to get it transferred over when I got the new phone. When I transferred it over, I had to activate the number that I didn't want, then deactivate it. Then that person's phone, my daughter's phone died. It was just.
Horrible. Horrible. As a company, they're the worst company I've ever dealt with in my life, and I've been dealing with it for over 12 years. And every time it's a new surprise of crap. So I'm not a fan.
But not like the phone. And I'm grateful that I have one and that it's new and I'm gonna definitely shoot some video on it and stuff and do a lot more impromptu kind of video stuff. Because dragging big cameras out, it's just a pain in the ass.
I I I'm going to actually do eventually I'd like to do a test and just shoot some of the same video with the Sony 4KA73, the Black Magic 6K Pro, and the iPhone 14 Pro Max and see what the actual difference is. Because I'm thinking it's not much at this point. I mean with a 48 mega pixel camera and Prores Pro Raw HR.
I wear mine in bed. Sometimes I'm not. I don't wear it every night. Sometimes I'm charging it, but when I do, I'll I'll turn over in the night and the the light on the watch is so bright that it shines through the duvet.