OK, you both showed up the same time. I just started a space a little early so I can send out some invites and get everything everyone gathered up.

Wake Dee, are you talking right now? Because, Eric, I see that you're unmuted, but I can't hear you.

Just Oh my God, can you hear me right now? I don't know. Everybody today keeps telling me I'm unmuting in rooms, but I promise I'm not. I I was just sitting here waiting for you to I guess say something.

Ohh OK. I'm just making sure. Alright. Hello Robert, welcome.

Hello, thank you for having me.

Yeah, I sent Robert. We're waiting on a few other people. I know Moto is planning on coming. I sent you an invite as a cohost. I have a another Co host that I'm gonna bring on. He's running behind.

But he will be here a little bit just shortly.

Alright, just to get started.

Great, you popped off back and listener. Oh no. Yeah, hopefully Twitter space does not act funny on us.

There we go.

I'm currently driving, but I just want to go ahead and get started. For the recording purposes, this is a welcome everybody for another record space on Web 3 Starter Pack Special Editions. Today's special edition is talking about D Phi and Micro publishing with the creators, and today's special guest is Kobe social because we're trying to solve the problem of content creations and ownerships and self sovereignty.

And yadda yadda yadda. And where we're gonna go after Twitter? Actually self implodes. Just kidding.

Ohh hello Moto. Alright, so get started here. This window comes up with the MIC.

So this is the first time that I've I've done this so as a co-host, so can everybody hear me?

Yes, Sir.

Let loud and clear.

Awesome.

I can hear you as well what's what's going on everybody.

My name is sagoni.

Sup well.

So I'm I'm on a emulator on my Linux machine and so hopefully that I've I've not done the hosting or.

Other than talking on one of these, so we'll see how it goes and since Kent driving who, who, who else was supposed to be here as a co-host because?

Oh, I'm up here.

Uh.

OK, good. Then I'm going to mute and you, you you can roll.

You were golden, so we have.

Two speakers that we got Moto Moto and we wagdy or who is a good doggy I like that's kind of cool. Maybe we can get a brief little intro so I.

So I know who I'm talking to while I look for a charger for my girlfriend who's about to go see her mom. So I'm buying sometimes, basically what I'm.

I appreciate you coming up here, Sagoni.

And uh, I did a quick introduction of what the space is basically like, quote, UN quote is just saying, let's unpack this together. Special edition web three, obviously the starter pack. So this is an introduction for people that are just coming upon this podcast recording and not knowing what the crypto space is. A lot of people tend to use little buzzwords here and there. So we're going to take it slow and easy talking about what problems that we're trying to solve as content creators which.

Anybody that writes using social media, we end up writing little things here and there such as Twitter we have little tweets or Facebook we write, write what's happening for a day and so forth at the moments notice. But we're using platforms that we don't own and we're having user agreements off of that platform and companies current licenses. And one of the things I found very unique about Scobie social is the problems that they're trying to solve are utilizing blockchain for trying to create m

Self sovereignty and I love the fact that Scooby social has created an open source code and we have two special guests here which is Robert who is also the Co host AKA Hacks which is one of his character names. We'll talk later about your hellbenders park portion of it in Moto. I'm hope I'm saying it right but Moto you have not given your introduction yet.

Sure, I'll hop on. And you got the name right, it's Moto. I used to be called Moto Dave. Some people call me motocoaster, but it just kind of cut, cut, shortened to Moto.

And yeah, my background, I used to be a rock star back in the 80s when I had some albums out and tour and was on MTV.

Then was a.

Fell into the Internet in 1993 when someone introduced me to the moon, which was this amazing.

Text based VR at Xerox Park where people were building software on top of software to do all kinds of amazing things and.

Wound up starting five companies in Fintech and.

Video game technology, renewable energy just kind of got on the.

On on the.

The tech wheel and pretty early 1995 moved out to West Virginia House in the woods on the river and have managed to.

Kind of.

Keep some awesome projects going, but I I met Rob.

Around.

2017 during the.

Last crypto speculative bubble and.

We came up with the idea for Scobee back in 2000.

And that's what I'll be talking about, just exactly what you said really.

Solving that problem of trustless sness, permissionless, decentralized, immutable.

Media, entertainment and social.

That.

Really avoids a lot of the exploitation, abuse, oppression, suppression, domination that.

I love it. So during the time frame the early 2000s when you guys were coming up with this, this idea in the works at theory of, you know, you have to come up with a problem to be able to solve what was the blockchain availability during that time frame and the programming languages that you're working with?

Well, that's the first time around we were everything from 2016 to 2018 or so was all etherium.

ERC 20, I mean ERC 20 kicked off the whole shitcoin bubble.

ERC 721 around NFT's kicked off the.

The current speculative bubble.

And uh, which just crashed a few months ago, about half a year ago. And so these are really based on these technologies. But Rob and I did an analysis sometime last year, well, I I had gone from.

Etherium to.

EOS you know the block one chain.

And but we it was pretty sketch, just the whole.

Infrastructure and management. And there were just some things that, yeah, we didn't like about it. So we looked around, we looked at Dash, we looked at a bunch of others, did a big comparison and wound up on Solana just basically for technical reasons. But I also really felt an affinity culturally.

Liked that?

They.

Anatoly, one of the cofounders and the CEO of Solana Labs, had be kind in his bio and having been in.

The EOC cost system and etherium where it's just propellerheads arguing.

Bits and bytes and.

Everything else in politics and arguing, arguing, arguing and putting each other down and FUD and flames. And I just thought, wow, be kind, that's that's pretty unusual for Web 3 and blockchain at the time. So I started going to hacker houses and really fell in love with the people in the community.

Hey, David, real, real quick folks. It wasn't 2000, it was 2018. What would.

I was actually gonna ask him that question. That's why you bring that up.

Yeah, there was 218 to 2000. Dude, are we tripping or smoking today already or was?

I was like, this man is so ahead of his time that he was ahead of his time. Before a time was even there there to be ahead of. Like I was like in complete awe.

Well, 1964 was when Bucky Fuller first predicted cryptocurrency and blockchain. So.

Well, I I do have to do a quick, humble, not so humble brag, which is that I actually did.

Participate in the world's very first decentralized, anonymous cash transaction on the Internet. I went to I delivered a paper at the first international conference on the web at certain particle Physics lab.

And one of the speakers with David Chalm, who invented digit cash, she was a Berkeley cryptographer, privacy advocate. And I was so fascinated what he was doing, and this was in Switzerland. I followed him back to Amsterdam and just became obsessed and was like, I want to support you all, to do whatever we can.

Went back to Baltimore where I had my company before I went to West Virginia and.

You know, as soon as they release the API. So this is like, OK, here's how you do it.

I put I I sold a penny to my friend who was in.

Security at Naval Research Labs. I sold a poem for a penny in literally the very first anonymous cash transaction on the Internet. It was about eight years, probably 1996 or so. So it was, you know, quite a few years before the Bitcoin Genesis chain. But yeah, we started Scobee in 2020. I guess I was just sort of thinking of the round Number. So it was 2020 was a year, I meant, but yeah, Rob and I are like super old.

We're probably twice as old as most of the people here. We could be your grandparents.

So we would you said 2000, I actually my brain hurt 2000 and I was like, I wonder if he means 2020 cause that kind of felt like a nice great reset.

I really, I wanted to understand. So when you say anonymous, you mean not between the two people who knew that it was happening, but to like anyone that was basically viewing it at that moment or or going forward?

Am I correct in that in that statement OK?

Yes, cool.

Yeah. Well, what it meant was, I mean what what David Chaum was really concerned with is once you have all of these credit cards and banking systems and he could see that the Internet was going to be just like massive transactions everywhere, how are you going to do it? So that there was no central authority now, he hadn't solved the Byzantine general problem, which is what makes.

The blockchain possible because you know, it wasn't. So I did still have to have money in a bank account and I actually had to put money into a particular bank.

Is Mark Twain Bank in St. Louis, MO.

But the bank, you know, but basically, yeah, out on the Internet, there was no trace of what I did. So when I withdrew money into digicash or someone else did money once, it was in the in the Internet.

It would all change, but, you know, we could change hands, but ultimately would all convert back into Fiat. So it, you know, people just really.

Don't know about privacy and don't care about privacy so.

Other systems wound up taking over, and you know he didn't.

The company didn't didn't succeed, but it was just sort of an interesting early experiment with digital cash.

So I really do appreciate that you bring up the fact.

We throw web three around web one, web two, and we throw around a lot. But you made a very interesting point that the data that we are referring to, that we're referencing to most people don't understand this. It is, it is, I think I said like the same statement seven different times in a row without actually getting to the point. And I just did it again, the.

The data that we're speaking about is the credit card transactions. It's the, it's the ability to see from point A to point Z the debt and how that was followed and who's who. It's owned by it and the owners of that information and how they have maximized profits off of that information for what, the past decade and a half, two decades and the difference between web two and web three. People think it's like it's a platform difference. It's not. It's not the Internet version 1, version 2, version

Community sovereign data where you choose not just anonymity, but like.

How your data is accessed and processed and whether you want to be connected to that data or not you control your data, you control all of the information that's backed up behind it. And if you want to have 600 different wallets processing transactions all across the board you have that right. You can set that up for yourself. You can you can maneuver your assets around as you please without having to like report to any sort of authority about authority based figure about that about those change

We're going forward. I'm going to go back to chopping some pork belly.

Enjoy that?

Folks, can we retreat to royal? Let's get some more folks in here and you know we'll we'll keep chatting about what we're doing but we're getting to the the actual need of things when we get some more folks in here because David's going to be making an announcement I think is fairly significant as as a future. And David I'm referring to what we talked about day before yesterday when I thought that was Tuesday or Wednesday when I I lost track of days.

And so that's going to be a huge announcement and it's going to be something that's not been done before. So let's, let's retweet the room. Let's get folks in here, because this is kind of a big deal.

Sorry.

And just to clarify Robert, what Dave is motto?

Moto yes.

Yeah, murder Dave.

OK, I'm.

Also, Moto the Magic mushroom and I'll tell you about that offline.

Nice, nice. I'm just making sure because this is a recording and when people are talking, unfortunately, we don't have a fun little video file when I'm uploaded into a podcast.

So verbal cues are very helpful. And yes, if you guys could go ahead retweet the room, but this is recorded, so you could always reference back to it. And I did want to talk about because we talked about, you know little past history about, you know problems that you've actually interacted with, problems that you're trying to solve because that's what the scientific method is all about and and theories are to be tested out until you're proven incorrect. We have to tweak it. Now this is a this ap

That you've been working on, how how long have you? How many beta tests have you had it run through?

Well, that's kind of, that's a really good question. So we started 2 1/2 years ago, so we incorporated in June of 2020 and we did our first actual release about a year later. If you look at product Hunt, you'll see.

It was about July 2021 where we pushed it out there we had a whole bunch of users. So we've been, there's there's a new term which I really like I don't know how new IT is, but people used to talk about MVP's all the time, minimum viable product and then I read somewhere about Maya, most advanced yet adjacent. So each release we do is a Maya. It's basically the best, the most advanced we could do that's adjacent to where we are.

You know, and we've kept making, uh, I think some pretty significant progress. Now what?

What Rob alluded to is kind of the.

Big Quantum Leap we're about to go through.

Yeah.

I don't know if you want me to hold it or or, you know, we can talk a little bit about that now because I do think it's pretty interesting and sort of the evolution toward that.

Yes.

Well while we're waiting for more people just for but I'm I got a couple questions because you end up mentioning that this was built on Solana and I I understand your information your reasons why you your previously stated but I also for a lot of people entering or have been in like cryptosphere crypto Twitter they kind of get a little bit of a maxi feel for you know which block chains.

Their best and so forth and current news with FTX and you know the Solana in general for their token or their coins are is taking quite a hit.

Yeah.

I mean, do you have any any caveats as well as uh, you know, brushed off concerns over how your project will do?

Hey, let me pick.

Now let me take this one, because here's the thing, people who are Maxis, it's awesome, but.

Blockchain or tools. That's all they are. They're tools. We we think of them as currencies for whatever. You know, the duffi side of it, we forget these are tools and.

Solana is the one we chose because you know they've had a good vibe feelings and he was he was he was doing his his mode of the magic mushroom with those folks. But you know myself I'm a little bit of that mindset of that the propeller heads right. And so looking at the technology what we could do in rust and what we figured out you know the additional things that we could we have done with rust and the typecast of rust, the the the you know how you know how the typecasting.

The primitives and how Titan can make the security in it and how we put the different apps together on the chain.

It's very powerful. It's extremely powerful. And as As for being other changes that can do it as quick, yeah there's some are more or less a Phillips head versus a hexadecimal head. But the the The thing is.

In the future I see this as a multi chain. We're not you know we're going through the proof of concept of here's the technology, here's a decentralized app, this is a Web 3 app right now because we're still in web 2/3 and there's a hybrid space and we have to get around the folks at at Google. We have to get around with folks at Apple and the way that they had their, what would you call that Dave the 30% tax on on NFT's was that what you said?

Yeah, I mean that's basically what they do in the in terms of the in app purchases and the app stores and stuff. Yeah, and Google Play.

Yeah. So the idea was how can we how can we you know bring the value back to the content creators that was the original you know the original thing because Dave David is a creator you know he's he's a musician my creation is is building applications and and and things that matter that that for information systems on large scales. So each one of us are are are creators but we ran into the problem of of the creators not getting what they deserve.

Well that was you know the the, the beginning the genesis of of this and then in Web 3 where the self solvency comes into play you know that is extremely powerful and this is this is the problem that scobie.

Started out with and and and I think Dave correct me if I'm wrong we've done a pretty decent job of of of getting around these problems that are Web 2 but we still have to deal with web two technologies and so until we get the the more the folks into web 3.

It's going to be a little bit harder, but.

Well, I'd like, I'd like to just also add on just piggyback on that to really address kits core question about.

Maxie's on various chains and being out at break point this year which is Solanas's annual conference which was there about, you know 5000 people there which was twice as big as.

There were the year before and.

When when I would go to other conferences and talk to Maxis, you know, Ethereum, maxies or wherever they were.

They almost never had really valid reasons.

To be on whatever chain they were on, it was all you know, they would just repeat whatever FUD was running through the Twittersphere and.

When you look at, for example, decentralization, the Nakamoto coefficient.

Umm.

Salana is the most decentralized and decentralization just means.

How much it would take? What resources it would take to invalidate the chain meaning?

If all of the validators are agreeing have consensus on the next block that's being added, how can you actually disrupt that? So a blockchain is really super simple and.

Salana is the most decentralized the and the other really important point that I saw was.

The development tools and I went to.

As soon as Aptos came out, there was a lot of people talking about going to Aptos and there was a lot of hype. And I looked at it and it it it didn't really seem any stronger. When I was out in Lisbon, I went to the sweet hacker house. That's a really interesting new blockchain. They're still on Dev net that's coming out soon. They have a couple things that are really interesting about it. They have the metadata on chain.

You can draw.

You can have transactions that aren't as important and you don't validate those transactions.

So I I like what they're doing. And I could definitely see doing something on it. But what's different is the cofounders, Anatolian Raj Anatoli was at Qualcomm as a chip designer for a long time. They have. They're so freaking smart in terms of.

Hardware and optimization to get the transaction speed. It's just.

And in my view is, yeah, they're going to be a lot of other chains, but ultimately it's going to come down to Bitcoin as IBM, Ethereum is Microsoft and.

Salon is gonna be apple or take whatever. You know, old people like me, Informix, Ibase and Oracle, you know, there's there are all these three horse races and I just.

I am absolutely confident that in 50 years Salon is going to be strong. But back to your other point quickly about FTX, I mean it's really interesting. Like now you can see why.

The the coin price, the token price of soul.

Got so high because basically you had FP, FTX essentially wash trading you know and boosting the.

The value, and it just shows. I mean, I'm not a speculator, I'm a builder and I think anybody who's in this just to pump their bags, I mean they're going to suffer because.

I don't, I don't think anybody can tell based on the success of a network what the price of a coin's going to be in the future. I mean, it's way too complicated.

Yes, Moto, but I also, I mean this current space, I enjoy talking about projects as long as they're relevant to technical technological advances and functionality and growth. I'm just going to keep. I threw that just as a left left field conversation, but not to go into depth over it because there's a lot of internal, you know, essential politics that goes into business on it and that's just not the time and place for it.

But yes, we're all on the same page, definitely. We have two hands up right now. It's agony, the Co host and then will tee and then we're going to carry on to the Scobie social application and what projects that you're bringing on and the open source code.

So many words were just said, I have ADHD, so forgive me while I dig into my brain really quick to find where I was, where I was going with this because there's a lot of really cool, really interesting shit that you just said. And I agree with a lot of it and I feel like we have a difference of age, but I did live right right around oracles area. So I do remember like the changes of the entire, you know, environments of not just like the tech space or the web space, but like physical spaces arou

My first thought when you when you were describing the like the issues was like.

Why not start with something a little bit more below the foundation, like the clay of the Earth, right? Like why, why not go with a decentralized web browser you know and plug to a plug in? Just like how minimalist does with Google Chrome with like you know, use a upap wallet and and.

Kind of like make it as decentralized as possible and you're skipping bridges. You're skipping the problem with chains because the moment you go to chains, like if you're decentralized today, you're eventually gonna be BSCS. Centralized chain essentially.

You were you're gonna kind of like forgo the decentralization aspect of it. So I think like.

I'm, I'm, I'm going from like a marketing standpoint, like a marketers thought process standpoint. Words get thrown around in this in this space A lot. And I feel like I've seen websites that have an overabundance of the right or what they think is the right verbiage for drawing attention or building a community. But it's like it's very redundant and it doesn't really explain much or over explains things that are like very simple. It makes it makes them kind of like very technically difficult wh

90 degree, because I understand what you're saying.

But.

Why try to solve a problem?

Without creating a foundation that.

Kind of like can move in parallel with with the solutions on both on both accounts or partner with with the with like in the case of a browser or partner with a project that is already doing something those sorts. Have you guys considered that?

Well, it's super simple. It just comes down to user experience that that's where it is. And from the very beginning, we just said if this is going to be successful, and I'm going to wait to really say what we're doing. But we did try a lot of things and we had quite a few different partners over the last 2 1/2 years. But over and over and over it came down to.

What's the?

Simplest.

Way.

To get creators what they want and their audiences, their fans, their collectors, what they want and testing over and over, it just showed it really had to be every aspect of it had to be in the app.

So that's why we did what we did.

And and you're referring to, you're referring to scobie at this point, right?

Yeah, exactly. So when we tried to do things with a web browser, we tried two things with plugins. We tried two things in different ways. People would get confused. There was also all those problems you probably remember.

Board App, Yacht Club there Discord was hacked. Gods Twitter was hacked. You know various things where people. I mean how much spam do you get in your wallet even, and I mean look at Twitter spam trying to hijack.

Your browser and hijack connections. We just said, look, if this is really going to, if we're going to onboard a billion people into web three, it's got to be safe, it's got to be clean, it's got to be trusted, it's got to be verified. And the only way we could see doing that is within is the way we did it. And I can't wait till we get to actually talk about what we're doing because it'll become really clear.

What?

Why we made those choices and they were 100% for user experience and not for.

You know, to hang our hat on particular ideas, like someone said, a break point. Decentralization is not product market fit. And during the whole shit coin bubble, you know, people were decentralizing, everything was like, here's my decentralized toilet paper and people would.

Bid it up to the moon. You know it's not about buzzwords. It's about providing incredible value.

It is.

Before I hand it over to you, well, I just want to clarify that to whoever you know, whoever here doesn't know Scooby is a symbiotic colony of youngsters and badasses or badasses and youngsters. So I feel like that's where I'm going to go with this. I'm kidding.

I love that, actually.

OK.

Write that down. That's pretty cool. So.

Yeah, I brew, I brew kabocha. So, like, I saw scope. I was like, oh, OK, I see what you're.

So, so the other thing in this right is that we live in a web two world.

And to go straight to Web three, this is you know part of the future and we have to build that bridge and so the the the first project was in in Delphi and and you know knowing your customer is is something that a company has to be able to do to provide because we still will regardless.

Of where we live, we still have compliance and laws that we are have to abide by no matter where we're at. So even though this is a Web 3 business, we still have you know brick and mortar things that we have to abide by. But you know as we move toward that decentralization for real, not just the word, as we move to self solvent, if we move towards those goals as humanity, you know those things have those things will move slowly over time.

But to get there, you know, we have to build the bridge and that was the I was indigo that was we were going to build the bridge. And then as we started building the bridge we realized well, we didn't have pieces to build the bridge. And so that's when Scobie came into play. And so we started you know, putting the pieces together to build this bridge. And so now that we have the app in the app itself is a bridge for creators to bridge them into website, to onboard them into web three with the ea

Yeah, totally agree.

As the ease of just putting Twitter creating account and now you're you're speaking on this well scobie's doing the same thing except now it's time your your your wallet which now becomes your identity. So I hear where you're coming from but unfortunately the world's not ready for the full blown and this was the best path that we saw to get where we're and then then to where we want to go. Dave, did I say that right because you're you're the one who keeps telling me this.

Enough.

Yeah, it was. That was cool. I don't have anything to add.

Can I ask a rod?

Yeah, this will have a question.

No, sagoni will T first. Gosh, the poor man.

Yeah, I was gonna say Jessica real quick. No real quick question. What real quick to cause he said something that I want, I wanna just, I wanna just clarification on that. I apologize. Well, I love you.

You know what? I'll wait. We'll go ahead.

How how's my audio like coming through right now?

Very clear, like a Canary.

OK, cool. So, Sigourney, thank you for that. I feel like I'm being front run by a bot right now on the blockchain, but I digress from that. Anyways, I feel really out of my element here. Like I'm at ETH Denver again because that was a Devcon that was, you know, not marketed in that fashion. But with that being said, my question is, this is a very competitive landscape from the way I see it right now in the world of Web three in terms of building the next decentralized.

Social network that a lot of people are going to gravitate to we you know I'll I'll just cite a few examples. So you have a Skippy social which has very deep roots in the Polygon blockchain. There's D so that's out there that from my understanding so under development. There's another one on Salana called Social. I don't know if you guys are aware of that project or not but what it's going to be the different differentiator between all those other platforms and what you guys are building.

That people are gonna want to gravitate to you.

I love that question. So.

First of all, I would say.

Everything I've seen, I mean diesel is a perfect example and there's lens protocol and all these others which I think have completely missed the boat.

Because they have this belief that.

People somehow want to own their data or care about their data or all this ephemeral, ephemeral, ephemeral stuff. Like when Snapchat came around, I mean, our kids were on Snapchat. Now obviously Snapchats for old people like millennials and you know, there's Tik T.O.K, but all of this is just stuff that like, flies by you and goes away.

Good call.

We were actually changing our name. I mean, it's Scooby social now. We're changing it to Scobie Mobile for very particular reasons. We actually, when we, when we get into what we're actually doing, you'll see that.

It's really not about social or social media, it's really about.

Creators and projects and significant projects rather than what is currently considered a creator now in this market and this market is this market because of advertising. I have a lot of friends who are senior at Facebook and you know they'll tell you 2008 2010 advertise you know advertising was a Wild West. Nobody knew if advertising was a model that was going to support a company like Facebook and.

So they built and Kit had mentioned Twitter and was Twitter going to be around in a long time? I mean when we when you actually dive into the mechanics of these centralized systems, what's maintaining them, the battles?

You know, World War Three is happening right now between Apple and all the social media companies under the guise of privacy, which was just to break the chain of custody of.

The user.

So that you could follow them from app to app from website to website but.

Apple could within the Apple ecosystem because of the way they defined privacy. And they just did this power play where all the sudden Apple is ruling advertising and Apple has.

I don't know if they still do, but there was a few weeks where Apple had a market cap equal to Facebook.

Google and Amazon combined, I mean, it's just, it's insane what's going on. And so when I do actually get to talk about what Scooby is and where we're going, you're going to see that.

It is. It does actually have with our current partners, it has the possibility and.

I see it right now as far as I've looked at it.

The only real possibility of providing this new thing that is no longer based on the old centralized systems where you're if you're, whether you're talking about nation states or banks or.

The Kiwanis Club.

So did that answer your question or or did we?

Sidestepping.

No, I think I'm good with that. Thank you very much for fielding the question.

Awesome.

All right, shall we let him go again? Because he's sitting there with his hands hand up so patiently.

Yeah, sorry, I'm, I'm cooking at the same time. So it's like you guys, you guys get to actually like.

I'm essentially holding my breath in between spaces cause Kit knows I'm I'm at right now. This is like this is a G rating sagoni not to, not on the offensive level, but like.

I like to ask the questions that that you don't want to hear. I like to say the things that make sense to me, but like.

You know, from like a consumer standpoint, because I I, I would view projects and companies and corporations, I view every single digital or physical asset as what is the perspective of how this is going to be looked at from one consumer and then masked upwards and isn't even viable to even mass it upwards and like what will it take to get there. What you were describing to me makes sense because like you're you're working with creators that are no longer.

Print, right? Facebook was around the time where print was kind of dying out. We were going blog, we're going digital so video wouldn't audio makes absolute sense, but.

I I wouldn't compare it to Facebook. I mean when when you start describing it, I'm sure we'll get into that. But like I'm assuming you're gonna go LinkedIn style because it's it's centered around projects and businesses.

And.

It's like it's less about a fun thing and more about a serious thing.

Interesting.

No, absolutely not. You're you're going in the wrong direction. I mean so, so like LinkedIn, I was actually, I got one of those emails from.

Yeah.

Well, I mean it wasn't, I was, it wasn't just leaked. I was gonna say it's more like LinkedIn on the front that it's it's based on the companies and the people that are in the companies. OK, cool.

No, it's not. It's not. Yeah. Yeah. Just so we don't get off track. I mean, I don't know if kit you want me to. I think it'd be more interesting if I can kind of do the reveal and then talk about that.

Umm.

Yes, yes the the Q&A and like digging deep and trying to uh dig deep engineer what you've you've verbally you know reveal to us would probably be the best because the hard questions will have hard answers.

So.

So let's retreat the reset the room. Can we reset and retweet and let's get some more folks up in here because this is going to be kind of a big deal and.

Heck, we had more people talking and earlier and and and they were talking about. I forgot what it was, fashion or something. But fashion.

So here's here's the interesting thing about this space. Not just Twitter, but this industry right now. The reason why this industry is kicking itself in the ass and not not succeeding as quickly as people think it should, although to me this is a very healthy pace, is that most people here are not about.

The technology or about the companies or about the projects? Every, I'd say 98% of the people that are in these spaces are about watching red go from red, red go to black to green, and they are.

Not traders that are not financiers. They're not economists. Like this is this is a space full of like, hey, let's go to Disneyland and try to win some like stuffed animals.

But it is slowly changing, very slowly. But it is changing. And it is becoming more community based because projects and communities know on on both sides that if you're not on the same page as one another, the one or the other will take over and try to beat the other one into cashing out before the other one can. And then that just has been a domino effect throughout the last, what, 20-30 months?

I like to give Tim Brown the floor. He is the voice of reason. I understand that the speakers on here, we all get a little long winded and I love it and I'm encouraging it. However, for those are just coming into the space. Tim Brown, your hand is up Sir, and please, please be the voice of reasoning. If you need us to take a moment to repeat or step down a little bit, feel free to interrupt him, you know, help the room.

Thank you, kid.

And hello everyone, I was I was gonna say, because I've been sitting here for a little while wanting to ask the question and see.

What people's opinions were on the idea, and I think it's along the lines of what sagoni actually just said because as I observe from a distance and the.

Engagement that I have had with some projects and you know, things in this environment.

It it feels to me like a lot of these companies or projects have spent more time trying to appease these so-called investors rather than focusing on building solid tools and and projects so that they have something that's stable enough to bring to the masses, you know, working together to try to come up with with the various approaches that will make things a little more seamless.

And as I watch people jump from project to Project Lexicon, he said. Everyone's trying to beat the other person to cash out before someone else does. And the company seemed to be falling right into that. Trying to be the first to market, not realizing that you can grow yourself out of business, growing too fast when you aren't really prepared to handle what is to come. And that's just something that I've been thinking that I was, I was looking at and and really wondering if anyone else.

About anything similar to that.

Ohh, absolutely. A typical S curve, you know basing off of you know the the generalized term of marketing and the, you know, growth rate that generalized, that's when we have you know capitulations whether they're forced or you know involuntary from liquidations and then you have buyouts and shell companies.

Well, and I'd like to share just a little bit because Rob here.

Rob Wetzel is one of our investors. He's invested a significant, you know, 6 figure amount and and.

Scooby but I've.

My experience of being a serial entrepreneur in West Virginia.

You know, my first company raised probably $26 million, was my second company, my first venture funded company from GE Capital and Citigroup and others. And while I had board control, the kind of pressure you get from these people who know absolutely nothing.

And try and.

Steer the company in. What I mean, I remember board meetings where one guy said, you know, this was just before the first big bubble.

You're not a player if you're not burning $1,000,000 a month, you know, and this guy was like, I know 24 years old, you know, just out of Business School or whatever and.

You know, since then my game tech company we raised probably $15 million from.

Strategics and blue Chip Silicon Valley companies where they would call me at night, you know, 7:00 o'clock in the evening, it was 4:00 o'clock in Palo Alto and they'd be irate that I was having dinner with my family. You know, we should be able to drive. Pat, you've got to move your company to California so we could drive past the office at 11:00 o'clock at night.

And see the lights are still on, the cars are still in the parking lot, you know, and just over and over and over. We just had horrible investors that.

At my renewable energy company and it's just that whole thing to nightmare. So one of the things that Web three does open up is that you can.

You can field test. I mean that's what's nice about NFT's and and crypto people like what you're doing.

They can buy into it at a fairly early stage and you can bootstrap your company that way now. There's a lot of issues with.

A lot of people are selling, actually selling securities is NFT's and selling securities as crypto and where.

I I think, I do think it's time for us actually to talk about what we're doing because a lot of the corporate governance stuff and the Dows.

Goes behind it and shows what that's doing. So I'm just gonna go ahead and state it so we can actually talk about what we came to talk about.

So.

Scooby started.

The idea was a web three native censorship resistant.

Token gated live audio video app where you could make connections. Build community.

Share experiences and earn royalties based on the Dows you form or the Dows you join the NFT's and projects that you create and share. So that was the vision and what we found was what was really interesting was that as we tried to get our app through the App Store.

We kept getting batted down over and over for just crazy things like.

We couldn't. They wouldn't allow us to connect to a wallet.

Because they said that that's.

Another form of payment and that NFT's.

Because they unlock aspects of.

I mean there are all these obscure rules because we had live audio video that was token gated.

It was very specific in the rules that that could only be done through in app purchases. You could not do it through other payment systems, you couldn't do it through credit cards, you couldn't do it through obviously you couldn't do it through a connection to a wallet.

So we went through just iteration after iteration. We finally figured out how to do back end minting and still do our our royalty shares connect to how to connect to the wallet and all that stuff. We solve the economic problems.

But we realized that.

If.

If.

There were threats like for example, with Twitter when not just advertisers but their concerns, well, what if Apple or Google doesn't like what people are saying on Twitter? You know, they can take it out of the App Store or Google Play and.

There's a big difference. You remember when Google came about their motto was don't be evil. And I always thought, well, can't be evil is way better than don't be evil. So censorship.

Having actual freedom of speech.

It's different than being censorship resistant where if you are having a token gated conversation with people that you trust.

There shouldn't be any way for somebody to listen in on that, and there was a really cool app keybase.

Which was a crypto, basically a crypto social network communications that was bought by zoom and you know, for the security aspect. So anyway, Long story short, what the real announcement is and today is the first day that we're we're actually talking about this and you're going to start seeing a lot more next week.

Umm.

We are going all in on.

The saga, which is a new phone coming out Q1 of next year. We're getting our developer kits in December.

And in this phone, in this device, there's something called the seed vault. And so it's a completely biometrically secure wallet. It's basically like having a Ledger, a hardware wallet.

It's your seed phrase and all of your.

Crypto connections are even segmented off from the operating system, so there's no way that Google or the Android operating system could get your.

Private key.

So there's a lot that suddenly starts to happen where, for example, if you're a protester in Iran and you're concerned with the government finding something out or an organizer in China, you know, there's true privacy at a very, very deep level. I mean, they would have to defeat the entire blockchain to decrypt a particular message. And that's sort of the extreme example. But what if suddenly.

Got to back to this question about creators. What we were trying to do on the app was.

Our own protocol, the Scobee protocol.

Is social crypto syndication where we wanted to replace this advertising?

Driven ecosystem of Web 2 where all the machine learning is.

Tuned to insert just the right ad, knowing what people are willing to pay for the lead. You know, all of this stuff that's just reifies.

Consumerism. And you know that treadmill that people are on from birth, going through school and just always hustling and always trying to get ahead.

All the sudden what we decided to do was.

Create an actual cooperative in the state of Colorado. So there's a Colorado cooperative behind this.

There's a Dow.

So everything within this whole ecosystem is going to be governed by votes.

And.

Creators and the other really important technology that people don't.

So many people don't have a clue about how much it's going to change. Everything is machine learning. I mean, you can now edit video with machine learning you.

Just with text prompts create these incredible, vivid worlds and images. Animations are with machine learning. So that's going to change what it means to be a creator. Music, you know, I want to riff off of this. So everything's going to change. Intellectual property is going to change. And we thought we just are going to go back to first principles, do something really simple and really cool.

For an extremely tiny audience, they're only planning on shipping like 20,000 of these.

Saga phones at launch.

And yes, we're going to have our iOS and Android app in the App Store, but those are going to be really dumbed down because.

They're not letting people Co create and collaborate and exchange money and exchange creations and create a completely new culture, create a completely new world that's not governed by the App Store rules. And the App Store says you can't have porn, you know, so sex work is work. Like, why shouldn't people be able to do what they want to do? Why can't they talk about?

And shipped to each other ayahuasca. Why shouldn't they be able to do this or do that? So anyway, the announcement is.

Shipping on the saga?

Is going to be the world's first completely decentralized native stack for creators, collectors.

Promoters. Scouts.

On Adele, we're open sourcing the entire thing so anybody can build their their own complete apps and we're also going to have this on demand. You know, if I have an idea and I want to use the Scobie AirDrop system, I want to use the Scobee live token gated live audio video. I want to use any of these pieces. It's not just that I can create my own project, but with.

Very few lines of code, if any. I can just pull together my own app and launch my own project. So it it's super ambitious. We've done it with no venture capital. Just a few wonderful Angel investors are actually a couple on here besides.

We have fools dream who's one of our investors as well, so I'm very grateful.

Turn investors, but these investors are friends and family. You know they're just regular people. We didn't, we didn't go after venture capital this time. So I know that was a lot, but it it really is a big deal and I'd really like to talk about.

What it could mean if.

This centralized stack of Facebook, you know, or meta.

And Google and Apple.

You know, cracks actually emerge in all of that. And Ohh Sean's there too. He's an investor as well. Snappy.

Uh, so shout outs to all our amazing investors. But yeah, this is a.

This is really happening for real.

Sagoni. You are. This is your room now. You are the embodiment of me. Or vice versa.

Please, please continue.

I feel bad. I feel bad that you're giving me this type of power. Not all stories hand unless I unless I have to cut into just kind of like hold off on a subject. So Dave I'm going to, I'm going to I'm going to read to you what I was what I had written to kit as I was typing out the as I was explaining what I thought your project was.

And I'm gonna kind of like backtrack off of that into what I think.

Is going to be.

Disadvantage and also like.

A potential like gateway for you guys to build off of that even faster than I think you that you that you can that should. So I started off by saying there was LinkedIn and like that's kind of where it stopped. But I was continuing into LinkedIn. But Reddit and Twitter community foundations with Instagram, tick tock. YouTube streaming and Snapchat conferencing in terms of like communication and content creation built into a phone that allows for it to be a wallet. And I knew that you guys were b

There uh, infrastructure on their on their hardware, right. And to answer your question about why can't you have porn on either of these apps? Like, I mean I've I've asked for this world, not asked for it, but I've asked this Question Time and time again. But.

You lose a lot of countries, you lose a lot of families, you lose, you lose a lot of children which use these apps. So essentially by not allowing them, they've increased their user base and like that's that's just basic logic, right? We understand this. We don't want it to be the case, but from a corporate capitalistic perspective, it is the case. Now, again, we don't want it to be, but this is the case. And this is a this is a point that I make to people and projects. When I do discuss things

Or or are pushing for it to be something later on.

Being in the ocean with no waves and pretending or or waiting for the surf or imagining the server or wanting to surf doesn't mean we're actually surfing, right? We will get there. They will come with us this summer or like a little nice 3 foot swell. But we will get there. We'll surf. So.

I wanna, I wanna kind of ask you, did you guys ever consider maybe doing all the social aspects of of your app onto the App Store on Android, onto the App Store on Google, onto the App Store on iOS without the wallet. So making it something that is you know video, audio communication, video picture communication, however you know the structure is of what it is minus the app, sorry, minus the wallet where you can create your content and have it actually be based on since they're both web too, rig

Apps or browser having to be based on a browser because I've I've gone over you guys's website anything like that and I see that it's very much like gung ho to the next generation of decentralization and web three but.

You still use discord, right? So why use discord when you can create the community inside of your community through a browser and allow them to use the tools that will essentially become a bigger, a bigger application on your phone, but pretty much the same application that it could be if they were using it today on on the phones that are current in today's day, right on like Apple and Android and Samsung and whatnot. Did you guys ever consider starting kind of like off of that to kind of push i

Hitron wallet out on creature started through a browser log in, kind of like how open C is its own. Like you know it's on eBay. But on the app side of things you do everything about the wallet type thing. This is why open C is not. You don't have a wallet inside of open C, you have a wealth that connects to open C.

Scooby .1.

Yeah, let me so.

We did experiment with all of that. And yes, we didn't just consider it. I mean, we spent 2 1/2 years.

Building exactly what we were talking about.

If.

You know, if we were venture backed and we had.

Idiots who just graduated from Business School telling us what we should do that made good business sense. We'd probably do it that way.

But we're old. I mean, this is gonna be my last company, you know? These are brutal.

And.

Steve Jobs did say something really smart, which is, I mean, he said a lot of things were really smart, but one thing he said.

And MIT was what made Apple really great. What made it the best?

Is that?

When they knew what they were going for.

They would go for that even if it took longer, but it took more time and we know what we're going for.

Yes, the aggregation of all of these things is cool, and we could have a cool app that does that. And yes, people could log into a website and meant something or do something on the website and then bring it over into the app. But that's not magic. I mean back when I had this.

We had a patent in 2004.

And, and I applied for the patent after I sold my first company, took the kids who were like three and five years old to Disney World, you know, and I was thinking about what was going to entertain them in the future. And I thought about Mickey Mouse on a broom flying through their neighborhood. And they would have this phone, you know, mobile phones were pretty early then, but that would be their magic wand and they would point it somewhere and.

I thought about retinal projects and devices and I I begged all these things into it and I was like, this is what I want to make happen now. It was really early and we wound up doing these really cool technologies with we demoed the biggest massively multiplayer world. It was this game called Burners, which was the burners against the Bureau of Land Management, People with tourist caught in the middle. And it was just, you know, this sort of crazy game.

Um, but.

I we're going for something that is revolutionary because the part that you didn't mention is the machine learning and even back then I was thinking about all of these communications are going to be mediated.

And how are they going to be mediated when two people are communicating? And with machine learning you can do amazing things.

Rob and I spent a full day in a coffee shop in Frederick, MD, basically playing this game on paper for hellbenders, where I was like, OK, so we're starting here and in this clubhouse with the hellbenders and what's the first thing you want to do? And it's like, well, I want to build the still.

And we talked about what that would mean, what the rules were, what the mechanics were, what the hoops that came out of this still would do, how it would change the environment and how we could do that.

Without programming and how the people could basically who were participating could create these miracles.

And you know, we're just.

We're going to do something freaking amazing. And when Solana announced this phone.

And when I got to hold it and play with it and really realized that it solved all of those problems.

That I had thought about back and in the year 2000, I mean 22 years ago, like fucking if I'm going to waste any time compromising with Apple and doing work arounds, you know, to get people doing things that they can already do, like.

Getting an audio video spaces on Instagram and doing this and doing that, just sort of aggregating that all together.

Dude, all the work around that we did around Google and Apple, you know, put the put the project in jeopardy a couple of times because we had to figure out how to.

You know take this decentralized technologies and and and bring it into that centralized environment and how could we we you know still maintain that that the parents are the the you know the the characteristics of decentralized and the work arounds. It's just that it's a work around it did not solve the problem.

So.

Hmm.

Exactly. And and the really important thing they just said add this on, there's a term sacred economics. There are a couple of really good books on sacred economics and you have to understand the economics.

And the ecosystem and what people are doing.

If it's decentralized and people are.

Really value what that Creator is offering. And the creator doesn't have to be digital. It could be this amazing CBD oil that this person makes in Shepherdstown that I want to promote.

If if the Creator says, here's how I'm going to incentivize my pre my promoters.

Incentivize my distribution.

Team, then that should just all happen from person to person to person.

So what we're going to be launching?

December 16th, and we're going to start really pushing it. Like there's that tweet at the top which has the timer. It's still counting down to that, you know, if you go to hellbenders dot live.

But what we're doing now is with this release, we're going to have this contest where we're going to give away a lot of.

Phones, saga phones. We're going to give away $10,000 in cash. We're going to give away trip. We're going to give away all kinds of things.

Just to get this moving.

Because we've, I mean, I just want everybody to go all in on this because that's the only way it's going to work. If people actually start, there'll be a point where Apple and Google, just like what happened with Microsoft and Microsoft, has come back, but happened with DAC. It's happened.

Everybody that's been big, that's failed. It's because.

People simply migrate to something better. So that's all we're doing. We're going to say, hey, we're over here, 20,000 people's enough. 5000 people, I don't care. There's a different economics where 5000 or 10,000 people, it's plenty because I don't need.

Billion followers to make.

$50,000 you know, we have something that is.

A legitimate ecosystem that everybody is enriching. And by enriching that ecosystem, they're being rewarded. And there's.

The logic of resource distribution.

That's fundamentally mycelial. I mean, nobody else besides Rob calls me the magic mushroom, but.

I guess I am a myscelia maximalist because I believe we're moving towards this mycelial age where.

Resource distribution is as fundamentally.

Efficient and effective as the way fungi and lichen do it way more intelligently than humans do it, where you have all these people living in abject poverty and you have assholes.

Sitting on stacks of billions of dollars, you know, it's just it's not going to last. So let's do whatever we can to to tip it over.

So.

Go ahead.

And and the I I got just one thing to add then I'll step down. The is the technology that we've built is sustainable it can grow it is is capable of scaling. So progressive web application as now moving towards you know more the decentralization capability. So eventually you know you you you can use scobie or you just use the this the the Scobee protocol.

Or just you know you want to build it app use the the ready made app libraries so this is this is what you know what's going to be done and that eventually I I want to see this more as a you have a community of builders who like like with Lennox when we started Linux. You know at us with Patrick in the beginning of Slackware and and I you know I was with Fedora before Fedor became you know before Red Hat you know at the very beginning Red Hat and then for door.

And so you know, we, we established those communities and of open source and sharing and and you know we sat there and came up with the, you know, we're Stallman with the, you know, the Free Software Foundation. All that we're doing is taking that to the next step.

It is that these technologies are enabling something that that we've you know, developers from back in the early 70s have have you know, wanted to do for a long time. So now instead of it just being software, it's it's everything and and so the platform is is capable of delivering that. But more importantly the platform is capable of helping other people deliver what they need out of it.

So I'm I'm gonna unpack all of this.

I'm gonna try to do it as briskly as possible.

I have. I have one very.

Special gift and that I'm both a burner and a Coachella goer. And one thing that I could tell you about burners is that they hate Coachella. One thing I can tell you about people that go to Coachella is they have no idea what Burning Man is.

I love that.

Now, does that change? Does that change the population, that both of these places host about the same amount of people? Absolutely not. The intelligence level at Burning Man is a lot higher than than that of Coachella, but I have met.

Fundamentally the most astounding people, amazing people, beautiful people in both places.

You said Microsoft and Apple, and what I will emphasize on that is that they had escaped. They had they have landscape that was not moving anywhere nearly as quick as this one is. If they were, I don't think Apple would have survived what it had to go through.

If it was moving at the speed it would information and people and corporations are moving with now. Now the big thing that corporations and and companies have to deal with is idiots. We deal with consumers or idiots. And I don't mean in the literal sense. I mean in the fact that you have two parents, two jobs, kids that don't have programs after school that play video games all day long, that have access to information at a fingertip. So they don't care about yielding information for the long ru

Thing where one generation had way easier than the other, and the other generation had to work twice as hard, but also had the easing some, you know, some escape, but.

The thing that they all have in common is that.

Pieces were built for them behind a brand that.

Um was hated and and was hated by the same like generation that now like gate keeps it. Kind of like how Facebook is kind of like held on to the millennials. And I don't know how Snapchat wanted to stay hands up like the gens ears or the Gen Xers because like it was definitely like a Gen Z.

Slightly at the tail end of the age of millennial platform at the beginning, but.

It was one of those like it's not cool anymore type thing once Instagram like took the the same tech because the homeboy would insult Zuckerberg. It's just that's interesting and I won't go, I won't sit into detail with that too much.

The salon phone thing is really cool and.

I would love to have a phone that like does that I'm. I have one Apple product in my entire life and it's my phone. Like why? Because of iTunes match. Believe it or not, that is the only reason why I have an iPhone. Like that's it. As soon as match. Let me take my.

Beautifully curated, like albums, all my, all my artwork, all the time that I put it's like my music collection and have it at the touch of like my fingertips at all points in time. Now I could do it on Android, but when I was doing this, when I was building this collection, Android was annoying and shitty. Foobar was like really good on my computer, but it was shitty on my on my on the actual phone. And it was clunky and it was like the firmware was garbage. It was a lot of bloatware on it, and

And then they kind of like you know they hold you, it's like nice little corner closet when you can't move your your purchases from one to the other but you know that is that is what that is. But at this point like everything's free because there's transactions to micro transactions built into everything so.

The the open source aspect of what you're launching is awesome because everything that you're saying I if I do it I love it. Not just buy into it, I appreciate because that's how it should be. But how it should be and and what you're competing against are two very big different things and the best example that I can give you of that of what's happening right now is that.

Any and every company could have entered this market in the last two or three years. They have entered this market from 2017 on after Trump, you know, instilled, you know, taxation on, you know, trades, might whatever transactional trades that were happening with any, any sort of coins all across the market, whether their shit coins, all coins or Bitcoin itself.

They could have entered at that point. They could have entered it when NFTS were kind of like jumping up because in the Renaissance that is this technological age. We started with tax and then we went into art and now we're moving into gaming, which is that that communal aspect. We're moving into gaming and music, which is like.

I believe is the last part of what we're gonna see before we get to an age where it's gonna become instilled in our education and and in our.

In our everything else in our infrastructure, in our logistics and our cars and and, you know, the whole 9 yards. But the reason that it's going in this direction is that this is the direction in which the idiots that are the consumers can understand it and utilize it because they don't care about the technology. Nobody cares why there's traffic, but they can see a bunch of cars and they get mad at the person who's changing from one line to another. Like all the world's problems are that car tha

If you were launching this.

In like the earlier eras, you would you would not only be a competitive company, you would probably be the most.

Forefront leading social media platform, hands down. It would have been you sitting in that in that courtroom instead of Mark Zuckerberg. I can guarantee it because this is how it should be. This is absolutely how it should be.

People outside of like this room of what, 48, not 11 people? Most people don't care about decentralization because they don't understand it. They don't want to understand it. And.

I'm not. But mind you, I'm not putting the I'm not trying to put this down at all to any degree. I'm saying what the consumer half of my brain is saying when it looks at anything that doesn't scream fun or making money. That's how that's how we perceive things. I'm not that person. I hate money. I love having fun when people are having fun, because when people are having fun, I'm having fun. That's how it works for me. So I say this because what you're going to face is.

Big companies that have marketing budgets and advertising budgets that are so large they dwarf even the Angel investors that it would have taken into like launched this two or three years ago with Angel investing, start with VC, with VC investing, not Angel investing because as we saw with like with what lifted in California.

They changed.

They they change the entire structure of their company with $300 million worth of marketing. Like they could have literally put that into like their drivers, their, their, their employees, they gonna put that into their platform. They have done a lot, but they put it into lobbying and into shitposting I guess we could say with advertisements so they can make it so they don't have a liability in the long run because it's all about the long run. They'll spend 300,000,000 today so they can save 4 b

What is gonna like really?

I think help is how long this you can last in this like how long are you willing to like put feet into the ground, you know roots into the ground and push. I think that 20,000 is just phenomenal start. I think that's an amazing start. How and where you, how and where you send those pieces out is going to be really pivotal because you could do giveaways just across the board. I wouldn't recommend it.

I would really take about 1000 of those phones and I would put them into the hands of people that have an audience that not just trusts them, but trusts and understands what they're speaking about. Because you have. And I don't mean like into the hands of an influencer. I mean like if you could sit down with somebody who loves decentralization, loves and understands what you're working with.

Umm.

You could really.

Help pave their their like entire community.

And.

1,000,000.

Like, building off of that kind of gives you like, foundations, like little tiny, like mycelium foundations all across like the United States. And like little tiny, little tiny spots that you said a really interesting thing. You said, like, why can't we be like mushrooms? Well, mushrooms were two or 300,000 years before humanity was right. They got a way bigger start than we did. That's why they're right. That's why they're millions, for sure. Millions. But like they, they gotta start to become

But just as complex. But they work together so much better than we do, so we have a long way to go before we get there.

Um, you know.

Alright. Hey, let me, let me. There's a lot of questions coming out of this one statement, so let's break it down a little bit.

Yeah, yeah, go for it. It said this is this, this is, this is a bigger statement. It's just like I wanted to like, I wanted to like kind of like add this in while while you were talking about I, I kind of compiled it as best as I could. It's like one for one formative 1 formulating statement. But essentially what I'm saying is that like.

OK.

Did. The market of today is very interesting to pivot into something that is so different because people could have changed over to Bitcoin and started taking it and accessing it and using it when it first came out. But there's a fear of like understanding of what that technology is and fear of trusting something that's different because their paychecks aren't Bitcoin, their paychecks are Fiat, right?

Oh, I get it.

Cigarette. Let me just let me just make it super simple for you. There, there, there. No, just a minute. There. There are two.

Humans are organisms. There are two things we do. We move towards, we move away. The move away from is way more powerful than the move towards. Our fear instinct is the very biggest because we have to move away from the bear.

Or we get eaten if we just like, oh, I'm going to go for those blueberries overpowers. They are moving away from the bear. We get eaten. OK, we are as old as mushrooms. We're older than mushrooms because all of us are made of star stuff.

So the real simple answer is.

First of all.

There's a great book, crossing the chasm, Jeffrey Moore, that talks about the technology adoption life cycle. You know, it's an old book. He also wrote the gorilla game inside the tornado. This is my fifth company I've launched with very few resources.

Projects with IBM, with Sony, we had technology in the PS2, we had technology in the Xbox.

You know, none of this. The technology side, getting users, all of that.

It's not that hard. It's any market is basically the same what?

We're doing the great thing about the saga phone.

And Salana is when they ship that we are going to be in the DAP store.

So those 20,000 people who decided who already believe in the ecosystem, they're already either degens or they're developers, or they have a DFI company or their creators already on that blockchain, whoever ordered those?

They're not going to be that many apps in the DAP store. It's just like how many people bought that stupid flute thing for their for their iPhone one or iPhone 2 whenever the App Store started. Because you could could, you could blow into the thing and start making sounds, you know?

There's going to be adoption, there's going to be enough adoption, and what's cool is.

The economics of it all our developers are in Venezuela.

Our overhead is incredibly low. We're going to outlast whoever we need to outlast. We're not going head-to-head. That's why we're not going to waste our time trying to compete for people in the App Store or trying to compete for people in Google Play. Yes, we're going to be in those.

But, and yes, it's going to be a dumbed down version and you're not going to be able to do as much and you're not going to be able to make money. You're not going to be able to do this, you're not going to be able to do that. But they will get a peek at it.

We have funnels. We have all kinds of.

Marketing techniques and one thing you said was very important.

People don't pay attention. They they don't have the time to pay attention.

And you have to be at the right place at the right time.

For them to take an action that then gets them to adopt when they're going to adopt.

That's what social crypto syndication is going to help us with. There are going to be those few people, those visionaries, those cutting edge people who wind up influencing their friends. I mean, if I got paid.

For everybody. I turned on to the Velvet Underground with a mix tape.

I probably wouldn't have to, you know, when I was in high school, I probably wouldn't have to work now. And that's the basics.

The basis of what's going to be happening in this ecosystem with this protocol, there's a lot of complex stuff that's all going to work together. Very few people are going to understand this. As my old investor investment banker said, readers don't invest and investors don't read.

They're going to be people who push this button.

Who care and are going to suddenly say, Oh my God, I can do this amazing thing. They're going to take a video and they're going to push it through machine learning, and it's going to be part of this other thing, and it's going to wind up as part of a augmented reality game with other friends. They're going to be like, Oh my God, Jimmy, you know, you've got to save enough from your paper route to do this, or you've got to enter this contest to get one. And eventually.

Enough people are going to get it and it is going to happen. And, and I don't care if it's five years or 10 years, I hope it's before I'm 80 years old and I'm not going to enjoy it as much, but we're going to get there.

No, I I totally agree with you that you will. And I'm not. I I'm not. Believe it or not, like what you're getting from me is.

This is my career. This is what I do for like the living. I break down.

What your product is going to face and how to like approach it strategically so that you don't have to deal with it in the moment when it happens. Like, I I hate problems, but like I create them so I have the solutions ready for when they like occur. Like, I have no problem sitting down with you next year at 7's bar and we can sit down and talk about this all day. Like I would love to. I think I actually feel like we're going to be able to make that happen. And what I'll say is that like.

There is an irony in the statement you made about what your investment banker says, because readers do invest now and investors do read now.

And things have changed. So like the world is very is very different than what it was.

So here, you know The funny thing is about FTX. You know what The funny thing is about FTX is that.

What? Whatever. What? What about FTX? I think. Come on. All these VC's who put in $400 million, they obviously didn't read shit.

Well, no. I'm saying like people that people that are investors or want to be investors. They go and they and they read documents, they read books on how on how economics work. They read books on how finances work. You talk about people that would got degrees and like philosophy or art.

It's FOMO and FUD. I mean, where you were talking about the mass market.

No, it's like it's like you, you brought up, you brought up, you brought up. I am talking about the mass market because that is your market, the mass market is your market.

Now you could, you could put this phone into 20,000 people's hands and they will take a picture using their iPhone and post it on Twitter of them holding their other phone. And how long they hold that phone is going to be based on what they're going to get out of it.

What attention it holds and what you're gonna be competing against is what their other phone the one that they took the picture with when they're going to deliver the same things that you've delivered but on a platform, we're already hundreds of millions of people are going to be able to use it and understand it. Just like how Sony is is investing in patents for putting NFT's on their on their place network. Nike is releasing digital wearables on their dot switch platform. And people are like oh

On a network that they can't even access, that's stupid. And my first response is how is that stupid? You're putting it on a network where you can't pull things off of or put things on. It just exists. That's the best possible customer service relationship. So customer relationship management or customer service platform you could possibly have, if there is an issue, they can go back and they can look at the transactions and reverse things without having to go and chase down a hacker that's in P

There's a lot of like very smart things that are happening that are so smart that they're super simple. Now, this is a very amazing product, and I believe in five to 10 years it will be held in the hands of hundreds of thousands of people. But so is Linux. And how long did it take Linux or Unix to get to the point of where it's at today? It was competing against Windows, which was shitty every every like 4 variations of it. And and Max. I don't know what animals they were doing with lions and ti

What were both of these companies, what what did both of these companies do that Linux and you extended to? They were putting out shit platforms to test it on their consumers and all the different variations of hardware that that that was on PC and on, you know, on the Mac side of things with whatever hipster was like using what Van Camper you know, whatever apps they had. My point is, is that.

They put out whatever they could as fast as they humanly possibly could because they had the capital and and the manpower to like deal with the bullshit and the backlash, the PR and the marketing to like, keep it going and keep pushing. But also because it was in every school, it was in every business, it was in every place he could possibly go. Every coffee shop, every you know, porn shop. It was everywhere. So.

I guess my my my request is.

Yeah.

They have the ability to be everywhere and you're competing against the ability to be everywhere, and it's only growing on a global scale. So if you So what, 111 last .1 last point and I'll give it to you.

What I what I was suggesting about the 1000 phones, like very key people is you have a very, very, very huge person in the salon network, and that's Shaquille O'Neal, and he's a DJ, DJ diesel, and he's always at Coachella and he's always at festivals. If I were to put this one into any one person's hand, it would be Shaq.

But all of this. So this is the thing.

You're coming at this from.

Because it eventually will be centralized, sorry.

Decentralized mindset and the centralized mindset is just just no. But just a minute.

Here's the thing I really honestly.

Don't.

I can have this conversation I'm having with you with my dad at Thanksgiving.

Because.

There's a worldview.

That.

You're espousing.

That is not going to.

Be in this new ecosystem. So Shaq is not going to be any more important than Sean, who's on this call.

It's going to happen, you know, if I'm going to get these phones and we do have the scobie foundation and we're going to get the phones in hands of people, I want those phones in the hands of medicine men on the Lakota reservation, Iowa, scarecrows in.

The rainforests I want them in the hands of rappers in Anacostia in.

Musicians and.

West Africa.

They're going to this culture that's emerging. That's actually.

Cutting edge culture that people can.

Appreciate each other and make enough and that's going to ultimately grow and replace this other culture that's going to happen in the underground.

I was you know what influences me most is being in a post punk band in DC and being friends with Ian McKay of Fugazi and Discord Records and Minor Threat and.

Working in coffee shops and going on tour and trying to make a living.

In.

The centralized music industry and how distribution worked and how people came up with physicians and how people came up with this and came up with that, so.

What's going to happen is. And this is alchemy.

You can't fix something.

You can't.

Go into a contaminated vessel and decontaminate it. All you can do in alchemy is set up a new hermetically sealed vessel.

And those who want to migrate into that wind up.

Producing the philosopher's stone, the gold, the liberation vision that comes from the premium material, the lead, the shadows.

And it goes into and it creates this new thing and we are going to Co create a new thing. So I get all this, I know what the world is, I know how competitive Apple and Nike and all these things that are happening. If I was going to spend any more minute, another minute in this, I would be ground up in the combine of all of that shit. So what I'd really rather do for the rest of the time we have on this call is not to talk about all the old shit.

That we're leaving, but answer any questions and I'm sure there are some from folks in the audience.

About what this really means what's the protocol? What's the phone? What's the app? What's hellbenders? What's? How does machine learning play into this? And what can people do like with the?

The honey bears and.

What you know, these IRL products, how can they take advantage of?

This new ecosystem and.

Stuffs gonna happen.

You know, I actually love that you know the honey bears, because Psychonauts is one of the most amazing people that I've seen in this space, and I'm bullish on you 1000%.

Like I said, my my position here is to is to be antagonistic as possible so that we can hear all of the phenomenal things that you have been saying. And like how hard you backed this project, like that's the purpose, that's my purpose. Because if I was just maxing for you from the front, it would be very one-dimensional, 1 directional and.

It's just, it's not, I don't know, it's not fair. It's it's not fun, but it's like.

I want people to hear the truth behind what they're going to be facing in their in their day-to-day to make that decision. Because I cannot wait to see this. I cannot wait to to like literally like Chuck my my iPhone into the ocean and never have to like, use this thing again.

Uh.

Yeah.

But I just feel like a suggestion that because, you know, I've been in all these Shark Tank things and all of that isn't really the best way for people to learn.

Yeah.

Did you I I, I just wanna, I'm just wondering is the antagonism?

As productive as much more of a Co creative riff and and that's just what you know because I'm not going to check my iPhone in the ocean. I mean I actually like I use the LIDAR and I actually really like the cinema mode on the on the video I plan to use this other thing as my second phone.

Um, yeah.

Yep.

Hey let's let's do a room reset because we have people come in. People leave. And so I want to get it get us back to where we were. So I'm.

Robert, I got to be a Co host. This is my first Co host, so hopefully I did OK. I've drugged like three times, but that's me. So here, here's the thing. So this, this is kit space and this is her Web 3 starter pack. It's where she brings people in to chat about things and stuff that's in within Web 3. And it could be an array of subjects here we have today.

Moto, the magic mushroom Dave Levine, who's the the King eagle you see there, which is though birds, and you have me? Asked the doctor.

I am, I am a I am a mad honey bear.

And and what we call it.

Stumpy dial and house and we get the horny bear down there. So we're talking about Scobee.

Which is being renamed to Scobee Mobile from Scobee Social.

And the reason is that David dropped the alpha about Scobie mobile developing the app on the new Salana phone. And it's going to be part of the ecosystem muscle on a phone. And that Scooby Mobile is going to be having the environment for low code, no code environment for projects, creators, businesses, whomever to to be able to use this environment.

You build their own.

Projects on the phone natively within the Scobee.

Open source and the the social crypto syndication protocol or discovery protocols, social crypto syndication and the first project that we're hitting the road with is the hellbenders.

Dow or Die Project and some of you may have seen that I think kit.

Pinned it up above, but the dower die is taking the proof of concept from Scooby Protocol and bring it into reality with this now the Dow is actually a Colorado Co-op, which means that it it if you're if you hold a a hellbender, you are now part of the Co-op. You're part of the you know. It's not just a here's your you're part of the project, you know?

You're actually part of the coop.

So with that being said, I want to throw questions out to the group. Yes, kit, you saw your hand first. Go ahead now.

Ohh, I had a question for you and modo if you don't mind. I'm sorry again that I've been a little bit absent. I usually run these spaces on Thursday because I have some personal stuff going on in the background. I'm tending to children, but.

You got a you got a bonfire. I see the fire.

Look at you.

We uh well it's kind of nice today and I'm cleaning up some brush though we had a windstorm and a snowstorm and all that fun stuff and it just dead trees. But the question I had was you guys got you already talked with app the technology behind it. You know probables and you know the creation of a dial with your with your project with the hellbenders but for people that are using want to utilize because it's live right now to download off the app.

Sure. Whether you're an Android or an apple on Scooby, what is the, what type of functionality do people have just if they're not creators, if they're not coders or developers and they just want to utilize it, could you, could you give a walkthrough on that?

Yeah, well, the first thing we'd like people to do is mint this free.

Scooby Pass and do that as an enactment.

If you do click the link of at at the top and it's on the first one, but it's a part of that thread, you'll go to hellbenders dot live.

And we're actually putting together there a whole creators kit which with a lot of videos and other things that really show you how to use these apps and get the most out of them.

But the bottom line is, behind the scenes of chat threads and live audio, video and communities and some of the stuff that you can do on the app, there's a protocol.

That reward you for sharing.

Tokens. So if you like for example hellbenders and you want to be part of it.

You cannot meant to hellbender unless you have in your wallet a.

Project Pass or a social token and the only way to get.

The first one is from. Somebody already has one, so it starts this chain of. So let's say kit.

Went on Scooby and minted a Scooby path.

She can then AirDrop to all of her followers Scobee tokens.

With the Scobie token, you can then mint.

A hellbenders pass, you comment to Hellbender, you comment any of these other projects that are going to be coming into the Scobee ecosystem and the people who shared those tokens will get rewarded. So for example, on Hellbender 666 or Hellbenders revival, which is a collection of 666 NFT.

If your friend.

Who you've given a token to mints 1, you get 40% of the mint price, so that of that $200.00 you would get.

80 bucks. And those are the kinds of experiments we're running. But of course the utility, the fun is in the interaction of.

The NFTS are tokens and the app itself. So for example, Robbs written a game that's currently a physical card game. It's really fun to play called versus infected. Well if you're holding one of those cards or an NFT for that deck.

Within the app environment.

You're going to be able to play the game, the big thing, with this hellbenders release we're doing.

When you take your NFT and you bring it, there's it's a new collection called Hellbenders Revelation. When you bring it into the app, or you're holding your wallet and you connect the app wallet, all kinds of things are going to happen in terms of rewards. If you're holding a particular one, you might get $10,000 or you might get a trip to a hacker house, so you might get.

A A Scooby phone. So that's just an example. And then over time these games and you know all kinds of things. I mean if the honey bears.

Mad honey bears want to say OK, within Scobee all mad honey bears. You know you'll suddenly see a button.

On your bare.

And when you push that, some cool things going to happen, you know, whether it's a game or you get shipped.

Some sort of.

CBD, honey or you know, whatever the whatever you want to do, it's what we're really focusing on is the interaction between the tokens and the apps and that environment.

So right now there's not a lot you can do. I mean, you can make friends, you can, you can, and you can set up your own token gated communities.

You can set up your own token gated.

Live audio video sessions. What I'd really like is for, you know, for people to start.

Sorry.

Doing more and more of those, but I don't think those are really going to happen in earnest until we we get the.

Well.

Saga phone out into the market, but definitely come on board and start playing with it all because there is. There is a lot of cool stuff that's happening in the app right now.

Well Dave, I'm going to start doing a a weekly I guess like like Kit has her different Web 3 Starter pack and get a couple of folks here have their own spaces they run every week. So it's going to start a weekly on on Scobee called ask the Doctor.

And it's going to be like a a technical corner into, you know, for developers that are having trouble with.

You know some of the projects you know so I I was going to start doing that and and and The thing is you know we we do it through the gate but we can we also do it just leave it open so people can just come on in is that still possible?

Oh absolutely. It's up to you. So for any of these projects you can, you know if your project is called, ask the doctor. You can have it open, which means anyone can join closed, which means you have to be holding a particular token, or lots of them. You can say this is for.

Mad honey bears. And actually not mad honey bears. Right now it's only ones that are on Salana, but you could pick five or six collections.

And if it's closed, you can say, or if you're invited by me, or exclusive, which means you have to be holding those, you can do them as listed, which means anyone gets to even know about them, or secret, which means only if you're holding a particular thing you can even know about it. So yeah, there's a lot of possibility like.

Squeeze there, squeeze taxes. You know he could have.

Sessions for just his clients. Or you could have open sessions and for just his clients all he would need to do is, you know, send them all an NFT and then.

They would have to get in. He could even market his thing saying hey you, you.

You get to be a client if you meant this.

So we're really hoping for.

A lot.

And again, we really just released it and we just got a lot of things working just because of all the App Store crap. So it is brand new, but I definitely encourage everybody to to hop in and start playing around and getting familiar.

And so one of the questions I have is do you utilize Scobee, the original legacy token, I guess I can call it is the hellbenders now and in order to utilize and create your own tokens for you know, token gating, I guess you can call it.

You have to have the hellbenders and minting process and so forth. Why? Why did you go with the theme for Hellbenders and I I love visiting your website. Had a few people take a look at it and just get a few of like face value opinions over it. I I love the biker theme as well as the whole on, you know, nuance of an anarchist degenerate feel. But.

Why did you guys go with that?

That's a good question. You know, it's something that just early on when I first saw NFT's, it just kept coming back to me. So hellbenders are and Scobee, if you look at Scooby dot social or website, you'll see it's just super friendly and inviting and all that.

I just, I do ride a motorcycle. I'm in West Virginia. I've always been something of a rebel.

And hellbenders are these.

Salamanders. They're huge. They're up to £5 two feet long.

They live in really fast moving water. They've been around for 150 million years where humans have been around for, you know.

100,000 years, you know, a couple 100,000 years.

Back to the Mussel Hill comments from Sigourney.

And you know, I just, it kept coming back to me. Like people are really into these.

PDF's and animals.

I.

Spent four years on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation helping medicine man, you know, supporting them in ceremony sun dancing.

Doing vision quests and.

I.

One of my mentors.

4 arrows.

We were doing these workshops together and.

There's just something.

There was something about that particular animal and the name and the fact that they're threatened by.

Climate change and coal barons, you know, digging up there.

Turf and lagers and expansions I just had this idea of.

You know what?

You have so many different derivative monkeys and sorry, honey bears, but derivative bears, projects and derivative, you know, all of these charismatic megafauna as they call them. I just wanted this really ugly.

You know, the least charismatic. It it just made sense. They're like hell, Hell's angels, hell benders, you know? And then what was really cool is I was up in New York for NFT NYC and I met.

Mikko Gattuso, who's played mouse on euphoria and he's actually a Latin king. Like he's still part of that gang, which is notorious. And I started, you know, it's very successful actor. We started having all these conversations. He loved the idea of Hellbenders, so he's one of our honoraries and it's just.

I like this idea of the really like brutal exterior.

You know this because the people who put up these fronts like the punk rockers when I was.

You know, back in rock against Reagan and you know all the.

The Dead Kennedys played that and they were all the, you know, 4th of July smoking weed on the.

On the Capitol grounds.

I just wanted that vibe.

And because that vibe, the whole purpose of it is to keep away the suits. And that idea of to live outside the law, you you must be honest. So it just seemed like a world that I wanted to live in. Just like Burning Man. I went to Burning Man. I stopped in 2004 again, that's how old I am. But you know, being an old school burner, it's like I just wanted to create the world I wanted to live in. And Hellbenders just represented that world right now for me.

And don't forget the artist of Hellbenders, David. Can you give a little little?

Yeah, really good point. So Nat Jones is again a really old friend from back in the DC scene. A really good friend of mine, Steve Niles, who did the comic book.

40 days of night or 30 days of night, which became a great horror movie about vampires that go to Alaska cause hey you got a whole month of night you know to prey on on stupid humans in Alaska. But he was the illustrator of that he's illustrated spawn and you know I told him the idea and he was like fuck yeah and he, he started drawing. He like he was like this was the easiest thing I've ever done. Like these characters like they speak to me, you know?

I get it. You know, they like.

It was totally fun, so we got this amazing illustrator on board for a share of the.

The Mint as soon as we do that. And yeah, so that's been really fun to work on.

Now one of the things is your hellbenders like personally for me, if I was to present the technology and talk it up with a lot of friends, unfortunately I'm also I'm not as old as you 2 but I'm of older generation and my siblings are the same or even older.

We grew up very.

Um.

Church oriented family and when I you know I can reel them in with the tech talk because they know my background but if I show them like ohh you gotta buy this NFT that says 666 that that's another story. I was just wondering if you're going to have anything else mint table that's associated with the Dow but more more artwork so expanding.

Yeah. Well, that's a great question. Well, so we wanted this to be, you know, for a specific thing. I mean, this is just sort of my own.

Project you can get into, and we want other projects like you know.

There's a group called the Decent Company that's doing something just extremely different. Oh, there's one that's super wholesome you could look up called.

ZB from this company.

For the AI and Blank on the name.

But there can be a lot of different projects and a lot of different ways in and right now, you know all you need to do is mint Free Scobee pass.

And yeah, we we would love all kinds of different things, so.

This was.

Hellbenders was meant like what I found is if you try and go for a big audience, you're not going to get anyone. I mean there there was actually a.

We did our early tests.

Way back, you know, 18 months ago.

There were quite a few.

Evangelical Christian groups who?

Said they want to do things on this platform, and I still think they're going to do that at some point, so I.

It's just not up to me to do things that appeal to everybody. And I just, you know, I I don't know if I would be good friends with your relatives who are.

You know, so they probably don't want to be in my.

Sessions. Anyway, so I guess the answer is yeah, we want 1000 flowers to bloom.

And hopefully they'll be a million different projects with all kinds of different.

You know, takes on life and probably even some. I have a very good friend who happens to be a cute conspiracy theorist, you know, way, way down the rabbit hole. And he'll probably bring his friends in to create all kinds of hell. But I'm probably not going to join those those particular communities.

Understandable. I mean it's trying to curate something, but as far as mainstreaming something for the general masses and then individual projects can build on to it and just a general.

Topic to throw out there for discussion. And by the way, I don't get along with my own family members, so it's OK.

Yeah.

Thank you. Yeah I don't think any of us well yeah so you know the the health Enders is is at this point is is the proof of concept and also you know it's it's one of the first.

You know as a real Dow that has a tie and and David correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know if any other Dow has actually you know put a legal structure behind them like this. And so this is this is a you know a social experiment of recreating the world that we want to create and the game within the hellbenders is it's going to be extremely unique. There's no other game like this that I've seen you know I've seen that the battle rabbits where you go through and you.

Do their little personality test and they say you are a like I did it. I'm a Viking. Duh. We we kind of know my personality. What am I in the in the hellbenders world, I'm the defender.

Our our are the what's the what's the opposite? Defend destroy you you know so so that's the shadow of it and and the game itself is is meant that you go through and you ask it's going to ask you questions is built on color young and now.

Dealing with the the depth psychology and so your character that you create within the Hellbenders universe is actually you.

And so it it does your your your personality traits and so task will be given to you by the AI to help you become better you like.

David I redid the test. My empathy is the same. It's like 25 that's freaking low. Doesn't mean I don't care. It just means I don't know how to show I care or no I really don't care and and it's it's so I have to become a more caring person and and you know that that's part of this game is is how do I become better me so the help Enders you're you're creating this universe. You're creating this ecosystem of of people that you want to be around. You're doing things that you want to do.

First clubhouse is going to be in West Virginia, right at that warehouse, Dave.

The first clubhouse.

Yeah, it's going to be at the warehouse in West Virginia.

For hellbenders.

Yeah.

Possibly, no. Well, what's really interesting, since you mentioned Dallas, there's actually this. There is a Dow, which is doing things extremely similarly. I think everybody should look at it. It's called salana spaces.

And we're actually talking about doing a clubhouse salana space in DC but also putting clubhouses and all this a lot of spaces around the world. So we'll see I mean there's we definitely want to get the idea behind this is that people will have local chapters, local groups. There's a big group in New York already forming and I really think that's important is for.

People to share these things IRL like sigona you're talking about.

These big festivals, you know, Burning Man and Coachella.

Godzilla, yeah.

You know, yeah, my my kids go to what's that one in Tennessee?

Bathroom.

Yeah, bonnaroo. Yeah. They go to Firefly, they go to others. I mean, I used to do rainbow gatherings even, you know, way back.

And I used to.

You should go with them.

Yeah, I know. I know.

You should take them to electric forest. It is.

Fucking beautiful.

Is that at Bonnaroo? Is that a different one?

I suck at electric forest.

OK, cool. Yeah, we'll do it.

The electric forest is up, in is up. I think it's in Michigan. I forget what Mercedes said. But imagine Burning Man, but not, not in burning, but not in the not in the play. It's in a forest.

Well, that's great. I mean, I loved rainbow gatherings because they were in forests, you know, I'm, I'm a big forest person. I live in the woods. So that's great now, thanks for that, that tip. I'm definitely going to take them this summer. But what I kept thinking is.

Why are these the exception? Why do people have to go and leave their homes and leave their jobs and whatever and go to these places where they're suddenly free?

And.

I really do. I know this is totally idealistic and blah blah blah but my belief is sometime in the future.

It's going to be just like how we look back at the Middle Ages and all the superstitions and how people you know, the earth was flat and they're Dragons and you're going to fall off and the.

Earth and the sun moves around the earth. People are going to look back at this time and say, what the fuck were those people thinking? Didn't they know that everybody is all just different aspects of the same being? And didn't they know that when they dream at night, they're actually communicating with each other and that they can actually.

Talk to plants and you know that.

Their ancestors really, actually are in the stars. And, you know, like what idiots and I just want right now, as soon as possible for those people who actually do get it.

To find a place.

Where?

They can create that beachhead and slowly change the rest of culture and the rest of society. So that's that's really the core project that's behind all of this. I mean it's, it's just.

And what what I found like from working with all these medicine men, working with four arrows, who's, you know, coached to world champion athletes.

People talk about self sovereignty, but it's not the money you spend. It's not.

Decentralization, self sovereignty ultimately comes from self mastery. And self Mastery is not something you can achieve on your own. It's only something you can achieve in dialogue with a whole bunch of other people like Rob and I going to, you know.

A cafe and we couldn't be more different in terms of our upbringing and you know all kinds of things, but.

We find ways to connect with each other and Co create that just magical and we want, we want everybody.

Who wants to in this life? You know, it might take them a couple different lifetimes before they get there, but we just want as many people as possible to experience genuine self sovereignty which.

I didn't experience until I Sundance for four days and got pierced in the chest and was tied to a tree.

You know, and finally pulled myself off the tree, ripping the flesh off my chest, and I understood what it means to be a 2 legged.